My team did not make the playoffs last year

The Silver Age JLA

It took me a while to upgrade batman from his LE Matches Malone to R to E to Vet where he shines.

It was not until game 6 of season 1 did I have him upgraded.

upgrading is not easy but its rewarding and the challenge makes it fun.

Didnt you start with Rookie Batman? The way the rules are you can only start with an Le if its the only form made

Storm, Kingpin, Black freaking Manta, Elektra, Vulture, jean Grey, Black Panther, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Penguin, Two Face, Riddler, Mad Hatter, Blue Beetle, Grodd, Grundy, Plastic Man, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Shadowcat, Iceman, mac Gargan, gambit, Archangel, Moonstone, Absorbing Man, Scarecrow, Nightcrawler.

Those are just the figures who have expensive Uniques that are Vs, Es, and Us. This also includes you can't get multiple upgrades in a row with the same stat. (Sure, Kingpin can rock ASTs with CP as a team feat, but try to get the KOs to get him to a E/V ).

There are lots more, that would be next to impossible to get upgraded.

Matches I'm fairly positive is cheaper than any of the 'R Batmen'.

Yeah but that doesnt matter I was told you cant draft an Le as the cheapest figure only the cheapest most expensive R not a U or LE it was when I posted a possible team and told my core woudlnt fly as I chose a U as the cheapest version (and even if so it woudl have been just as easy to draft R Batman)

Stupid rule. Lets finish getting rid of all the rules I don't like.

Very few figures fit this description, but yes you can draft LE Clarice instead of R Blink.

I will beg to differ on the majority of these: (In your order)

Storm - 1 upgrade would unlock the Danger Room version in my system. (E and DR are both 40) Many people prefer this version anyway because of it's cost effectiveness.

Kingpin - Anyone who really wants that 78 pt HoT version will go through 1 more upgrade to get him. 3 instead of 2 is not that big a deal. (I generally don't see too many people going above the Rookie though)

Black Manta - Again, it's a matter of 3 upgrades as opposed to 2. If you are that dedicated to Manta, than I doubt this will stop you much.

Elektra - One upgrade to Elektra gives you the LE XP ninja, and that piece completely rocks. See my Marvel Knights team to see how easy that piece is to upgrade.

Vulture - Not valid. There are no Uniques post Avengers, and he has a completely valid Fantastic Forces REV that is a decent piece.

Jean Grey - Again, Jean works no different than she does now. She's a TK piece that needs to luck into other stats to upgrade more than once a season. My idea doesn't change this fact.

Black Panther - Black Panther has a very easy progression to get one more upgrade. He starts out as an outwitter. He gets ASTs. His E gets BCF so he can get some attack stats in. His IC V has L/C, Blades and Outwit. Slap Lunge on him, and he can be a fun little piece.

Harley Quinn - My idea actually makes Harley BETTER. Her R allows access to the Icons starter version to give you a couple options to start. 1 upgrade gives her the Batman: ALpha version.

Poison Ivy - Don't know what Unique we are talking here, but if you are talking about the upcoming Duo, than that isn't really the issue I'm talking about. Those rules need to be dealth with on their own.

Penguin - Penguin doesn't really change. You need to get 1 more upgrade to get to his AA version, but that means you already got 2 from a highly limited piece. Don't blame my idea for making the REV penguin garbage!

Two-Face - I like how the notoriously bad Bat Villian REVs are the main body of the argument here. Two Face is not that hard to upgrade with Mastermind AND Perplex. He should be an AST machine at first, with attacking capabilities

Riddler - Another bat villain. Same problems, different figure. His Batman:Alpha Rookie is still mostly an AST machine, so no valid argument there over his Perplexing REV. Maybe we should give all Bat villains a free upgrade at the beginning of each season.

Mad-Hatter - Really? Mad Hatter. I apologize to all those die-hard Mat Hatter players out there. If you magically got 2 upgrades out of him, 3 should be no sweat!

Blue Beetle - Blue Beetle isn't that bad a figure and can be upgraded. He gets 8 range and decent-ish attack values. Again if you got Blue Beetle 2 upgrades, a 3rd should be no biggie.

Grodd - I don't get the argument about wanting to take such a huge outlier out of play. As it is now one upgrade gets you over 100 points in RPs. That's a huge jump. Too huge. Superman level figures don't jump 100 points between versions in an REV

Grundy - What's wrong with Grundy in my system? 1) I've never seen anyone use his AA version, because it's not very good. 2) His REV is actually very playable. His super long dial and his steady AV make him a good figure to rack up SAs AND DEFs as Mastermind fodder.

Plastic Man - There is no change in my system from how it currently would be.

Mr. Fantastic - Again, there is no change. CT V Mr. Fantastic is 113 which is more than the SI versions.

Invisible Woman - Maybe the best argument against my system. But E CT Invisible Girl still gives you the 19 DV for Alt-FF TA, and the CT Vet is actually not that bad. Stealth, 6 range with a 19 DV and Invulnerability.

Human Torch - A good ranged Running Shot figure should have little trouble getting that 3rd upgrade.

Shadowcat - Um, again no Uniques to speak of post-Avengers AND the Sinister versions are pretty good for what they are.

Iceman - Iceman's REV aren't that bad. Use Barrier for DEFs. His RCE for attack on his E and V XP versions. 1 upgrade later and you get his 100 point version. I see no issue with that.

Gargan - Just do what you told me to do with Black Cat. Slap pounce on him and he's good to go. Even his rookie then has a 9AV 3 damage 6 movement attack.

Gambit - The 1st upgrade is the challenge with Gambit. After that, it's pretty easy with that Perplex and RCE. That doesn't change with my system.

Archangel - In my system, 1 upgrade gets you the Danger Room version which is pretty decent with 12 movement Charge. IMO, my system does Warren better.

Moonstone - It takes you 2 upgrades to gain the HoT version instead of 1 as it is now. Moonstone isn't that bad. This might be a better argument if her HoT version was more expensive than her V, but it's not.

Absorbing Man - I prefer CM Absorbing Man anyway, (especially with Lunge on all that CCE) so I don't really see the big deal in requiring a 3rd upgrade to get to his M&M version that rarely sees play.

Scarecrow - Scarecrow has 2 REVs to choose from, and getting to his Vets, give access to the Batman:Alpha version. I am assuming his upcoming Yellow Lantern version will be much more expensive than any all others. So it makes sense to require a 3rd upgrade to get to that Unique version.

Nightcrawler - Again, Nightcrawler has no post-Avenger version and would see no change.

Related to my last post. We could always allow the 'MVP' award at the end of a season to count as an upgrade as well as a feat. That would definitely help get some of these problem figures to get a freebie upgrade. As it is now, it seems to just be a way to give 50 more RPs to teams. THis would give it more strategic value.

Ok, so I also didn't realize you were doing away with the REV system in favor of a pseudo REV system based on point values.

You've said that your system is designed to make it harder to get to those sweet sweet post avengers figures, counter to the 'ease' it is today.

The problem is, it doesn't do a single danged thing to counter power gaming/min maxing at all. You still get R HoT Cap from the beginning (his R is the same cost), and you can still draft Lambda Zero, Wiccan, Cuckoos, Dawnstars, Con Artists, Destiny all from the beginning. With your system, you now get SI Spider Man without an upgrade. (His most expensive REV R is 51 points.)

All your system does, is make more popular characters more difficult to upgrade. Popular figures does NOT mean they're inherently more powerful. It doesn't make any sense, even in an 'RPG' kind of way. Why is R AW Captain America getting his @$$ handed to him by Gravity? Triton? Bi-Beast? Dum Dum Dugan? AoA Cyclops? Hulkling? (Though, Gamora I understand ). Even at his 'Rookie' level, Captain America should take these guys without breaking a sweat.

Right now, the only thing that feels themey in this while setup is that one character can only be on one team. That's it. Why call it a Fantasy League at all, and just relabel it the Draft League Elite.

The REV system was a great tie-in, but by allowing these random outliers break up the progression, you lose the REV system as a whole. There is no "growth" to a character whose rookie version is the most expensive and doesn't encourage you to try and level up lesser characters trying to get better figures. It just encourages the power gaming min/max structure. If that's the case, then let's just play constructed tournaments.

Now, my ideas may not be the answer, but since we are winding down one season, now is as good a time as any to look for new ideas to try.

I mean seriously, the only idea I've ever had that people got on board with is the infamous "three strikes" rule. lol I think we all know how beloved those rules are! That just shows that while I like an idea, it might not be 'the' answer, but by throwing ideas out there, I'm encouraging discussion and hoping for more and different ideas to come out. Lately it just seems like there is many calls for changing things up a bit, but every idea is met with: "But the way it works now is so much better!"

We can't enforce pure theme. If we did, some teams would be inherently stronger than others. It doesn't matter how good the Sinister Six from Fantastic Forces are, they're going to have their buts handed to them by the Avengers, the Justice League, Gotham Allies...lots of others. Even the great 10 would have hundreds of points left over if they went 'pure' theme and didn't use subs. The JSA, JLA, X-Factor, the West Coast Avengers, your Marvel Knights, League of Assassins are as about as thematic as they get. All thematic, except maybe one or two figures who aren't, cause they have all the other members, and they're dominating this season. Least thematic? Libra's Society, and they're out.

I think in this League, more than the HCFL, we have a stronger sense of theme. We aren't seeing teams of the 'Inhumans' KC Superman, Longshot and Forge, or Monster Society of Evil' Johnny Quick, Black Adam and Chief, or Ultimate Thor's as 'Storm'.

Our best action to take here, I truly believe, is rewarding theme, not enforcing or limiting 'non-theme'. We give a substantial RP bonus for drafting fee. We've added the theme PC bonus. We have a restriction on Good/Evil, Marvel/DC/Indy. We 'kinda' enforce thematic feats, which is hard to do.

I'm working on a rule that will allow thematic teams an advantage to stealing thematic figures from non-thematic teams. I'm constantly brainstorming about how to give bonuses for theme....but it's hard.

Yeah I think that's the way to go as well. If you want to encourage theme, don't do it by discouraging none themers. You want to do it by ENCOURAGING theme, which is why I suggested possibly adding the draft theme discount to the team you actually play in a game in League 1. Hmm but now that I think about that, I don't think that can be done straight across...so say in like a 400 pt game, if every one of your figures are theme, you can add another 50 pts of figures, essentially having a 450 pt team against a non theme 400 pts team. That's a pretty huge advantage so I'm wondering if it's too much. But yeah I think the idea would be to give theme teams more advantages that trying to hold back the non themers.

Just so you know Black Adam is completely thematic to the MSOE

Maybe a pure them team gets to use their team feat for free (of course the problem arises in that someone might get a 3 point feat others a 20 lol)