Even if you do not have the Contract for CJF, by placing any GS in a WH Thor, then recruiting to CJF, you make the Thor change it's faction symbol to CJF...which then allows you to MDFA, though only with the appropriate Faction Pride, being released in Vanguard. Remember that units released at or after Domination do not have Faction Abilities. Therefore, the Thor will require the new FP CEC. All of this info is in the latest FAQ.

Nice idea. I was kind of eyeing Tremor instead though. I didn't really like the WH version's base 9 attack.

All right, time to express my opinion on our new Summoner...

First off, I actually like this Mech. It is a nice cheap heavy, with a high attack, high speed, and very nice range (for us, that is). While it does not outdamage our Hellbringer, it should not be able to. If you look at the CBT stats for both Prime variants, the Hellbringer easily outdamages the Summoner, even assuming the Summoner is able to hit with all 15 missiles (Hellbringer Prime Alpha Strike Damage: 61 Summoner Prime: 40).

While it seems other warriors see this as an unpushable, low damage heavy, I see it differently. Some of the warriors here have (in a roundabout way) argued that there is no card in the game currently that can save this unit. To me, that says that instead of spending 30-50 points on gear, I can spend it on basers and harassers. The Sumonner is a very inexpensive heavy, and with our new Star Commander, has tremendous accuracy and speed. 234 points does not normally buy a 12 speed JJ, 12 attack, 14" range ballistic for Clan Jade Falcon. One of the things I really enjoy about this Mech is that it can follow up on its own ballistic attack with a 5 damage MDFA.

I can forsee the following being one of my first post-Vanguard armies:

Summoner w/ Star Commander
PHI w/ Minoru Graduate
R10 w/ Enyo
6x Vanguard CBA
Vanguard Pride

600 even.

A lightning fast army, which is what we originally used the Summoner for, a quick-striking hammer to follow up a rapid advance. Both the PHI and Enyo can engage under the cover of the Summoner, while the CBA's can pin units while the heavier units engage more important targets. While it seems like the heavy Mech is just a point sink, it does have fairly nice damage stability which means it can win a war of attrition, as long as it has good support. While it does not have all the bells and whistles of the other Summoners and our Hellbringer, it is still a decent Mech. It just requires some creativity to use effectively.

Wow Crash, that is one of the most well reasoned, well thought out responses to the Summoner nay-sayers. Too bad you've become flame bait cause the cause could use a good Falcon thinker like you :p

Falcon players need to learn that not everything will have the heat paradigm and move on with thinking aobut the usefulness of units otherwise.

Crash, I do like that army - in 600 points, I'd much rather have a decent heavy with a good support mech than a big assault mech that takes up half of the army.

With heavies, fitting IT is always going to be an issue for me. Bringing 12IT to the party and threatening to hit at range is a big consideration. Going up against some of these Vanguard heavies/assaults is going to require that sort of AV if they are going to get scratched.

Actually, I don't consider the CJF Thor trash, but I see 2 unfortunate trends here
1) CJF 'mechs with terrible heat dials
2) Elite 'mechs inferior to the Veteran and even Green units.

Again I'll say it: Why Pulse on this 'mech? Why put gear that it'll almost never use?

Still. I'll actually try it out, and I do see some great advantages.
1) The range: I've been wanting more range for CJF for some time now. Not with the regularity of some other factions(just play them then), but to give covering fire
for our hoards of close ranged stuff. I really prefer NOT using gunslingers for this purpose. Here we've actually got a 'mech that has a significant ranged punch.
The only other 'mechs we have with a 14+ range are the Gyr Falcons.
With the Ballastic attack it gives us a lot of different options: From Streaks(I so want a Heavy Streak common card!), to Armor Piercing to Anti-Personnell, we've got a lot of options.

2) It Jumps: This gives us a host of options. Like combined with the before mentioned Streaks, this Thor will be ALOT more dangerous in some urban enviornments than even our Loki.

3) Its fast: Speed can mean the difference in this game, and with the new H JF pilot, we've got a monster that can travel 24 inches in one turn.

4) Its accurate: 10 attack is great, and it seems to be getting rare in 'mechs.
Again with the CJF H pilot it helps to give it the first strike on other heavier units.

This 'mech would be devastating in Hindering terrain, something the CJF Loki wouldn't be able to say.

So, aside from the heat dial, its a grood addition to our forces.

Which I'd actually noticed as well (both the Loki and Thor are piss-poor mechs). However, that would argue that the Thor should have less of a heat problem than the Loki; the Loki was notorious for running hot and the point of the Thor was no heat problems.

Hot: The thing slagged itself if it used most of its weapons. In addition the Loki had the armor of a light 'mech.

And yup, the Thor was originally supposed to handle heat really well. You could fire all its weapons and jump continously and never heat up. Now I guess we've got the reverse.

I'm actually looking forward to trying the Thor out. It will be a challenge to use condiering its heat dial but with the right support behind it, I believe it could be a great asset to out forces for the cost.

It wasn't like the Thor was all that well armored either. And both the Thor and Loki have respectable dials and DVs.

Whoooooaaaah there hoss. Now, let's not start talkin' any crazy talk. I don't know nothin' 'bout any of them there "points" you're speakin' of. Might be I made one somewheres, i guess, but it sure wasn't on purpose, I tell you what.

Oh, and Recon, yeah, that sounds about right. :)

I'm happy with it

Here are my honest thoughts.

The CJF Thor got rid of two paradigms here. The first of course, is the pushable heat dial, but the second is the typical short range of a Falcon mech. So you got a tradeoff.

So the question is, would you prefer a Thor with a 12" range instead of 14" but with a more pushable heat dial, perhaps by a click?

I see the new CJF Thor as a much needed fire support mech. Heaven knows that CJF has been lacking on longer ranged fire support [and I don't mean artillery]. Don't expect the mediocre JF Raptor or the battleforce Gyrfalcons to make up for that.

Paragidms are nice for faction "taste" but they also tend to breed some imbalances and I find that CJF is paying too much on being shorter ranged, like the old Dragon's Fury. In fact CJF is becoming more and more like the old DF---high on attack, heat stamina and mobility, but short on range and defense. However, once in a while it is desirable to break that mold.

I don't find it bad, for a number of reasons.

1, It has a base 10 attack value for 2 clicks. It gets its high attack right at the start, instead of deeper in the dial like the other Thors, or starting only with a 9. Oh yeah, I have never been a fan of the Wolf and RD paradigms.

2. A 14" ballistic range for a CJF mech.

3. It is MDFA capable.

4. The pulse allows a potential of 6 damage, which is better base damage potential than the other Thors. I don't like the short 3 damage, but I believe in the near future, JF Zellbrigen is going to resurrect as a faction pride card. That along with the Liao SA, you can inflict a potential 8 damage total.

5. Best mobility of all Thors. Think of this mech with Celina Santos.


I am never a fan of heavy mechs whose highest attack value is 9, and you have two Thors with that. You cannot make a good defense mech out of such without sacrificing targeting ability. In my experience, there is quite a difference if you put Aiko Ryohara on a mech with 10 base attack and 9 base attack. With the former, you still get a decent and usable 11 attack. In the latter, with 10 attack, you can't hjt the side of a barn. You have to use a Corpuz, De Jesus or Stark pilot to get the 2 attack but will only give you one point of defense.

I also like the 10 base attack because it gives you 11 attack with heavy mech gunslingers with good mobility like Celina Santos, Cheap Steve or Frankie Amir. Something to think about with AOs, and again note the mobility of this mech. The potential for a 12" or even a 13" DFA (with Santos) is incredible after being softened up by long range AOs and 14" ranged fire. It is not everyday you got a heavy mech that moves like a light with jets to boot.

Well guys for the first time I actually beat my arch nemisis DieRache. I didn't fire and fade I walked in beat him up, took my lumps, dropped back to shut down and to vent, then went back in to dish out some more before the time ended. It was cool, a truely earned victory. :cool: :grin:

Right, Tirrex, get that sig changed pronto - agreed, Star Captain?