Discussing episode 5 of Ms. Marvel:

Overall, I'm okay with this episode, but not particularly thrilled.

The whole time travel thing makes for a fun connection to the comics, where Kamala's size changing actually works by sending extra mass through time (or alternate timelines). I don't know if that was intentional, though.

I like that Kamala's mother gets to know here, too, though her working it out on her own in the comics felt a bit more interesting.

That short scene with the Veil felt very awkward:
Hey, the Veil somehow opened. Oh, it conveniently killed the bad guys! Oh no, it'll kill us all! Don't worry, the main baddy can close it by sacrificing herself. Whew! Oh, and this somehow gives Kamran powers. Speaking of:

Kamran gets his powers. Yay! But they're just a copy of Kamala's powers. Boo! At least they're the right color.

Nitpick: How did Kamala's hard light platforms an inch off the ground make it any easier to get through the crowd? I expected her to make a path above the crowd, but apparently not.

And finally, wow, we really aren't going to get much time with Kamala in the costume. That sucks.

Dang, it's been a long couple weeks, and I missed both of these. Apologies!Yeah, the burkini felt like it had much greater specificity to Kamala defining herself in the comic, where I sense that the show is trying to build out her costume as a collection of cultural experiences that can't help but clothe her. It's profound in its own way and speaks to basically every person's experiences... but it does change what's special about comics Kamal, agreed. I don't know how wild I am about that change.

The cool thing is that the Red Dagger dials will be relatively straightforward. I'd feel weird if I didn't dial the Red Dagger leader, so that's on the table. This time, I'm going to be smart and wait to do anything until after the finale. I started dialing before MOON KNIGHT's finale, and that translated to WAY more dials than I would've done otherwise.Thinking about the Veil, my hope is that Najme entering it is a secret ploy for one last attack. That wouldn't surprise me, given that the Disney+ MCU shows seem to reserve much of their budget for their finales.

Otherwise, I don't like the idea of Kamran as a villain. I know he might be in the comics, but here, he's the manipulated son of a brutal, extradimensional abuser. If the point is that he contrasts with Kamala and doesn't have a strong family connection, thus making him evil... that doesn't look or feel good, thematically. I'd rather that Kamran just gift Kamala his powers so she can become epic and Damage Control is full-on the real adversary.

Otherwise, I fully agree with your nitpicks. A toddler's going to have the dexterity to walk on floating plates and not get knocked off by the throngs of people? I don't buy it. And saving Ms. Marvel's costume for the finale is indeed lame.

Again, I enjoy the show's cultural normalization, charm, and sentiment, but I just don't think it's great at being a superhero show. Considering that's Ms. Marvel's whole thing, that's kind of disappointing.

Ok, I've seen THOR: LOVE AND THUNDER. I'll start dropping dials on Monday.

Brace yourselves for spoilers; we'll be coming in hot.

MS. MARVEL dials will drop soon after the T:LaT dials, possibly in the same week. That'll depend on how epic the finale episode decides to get.

Ok, THOR 4. I wasn’t wild about this one.

While I thought RAGNAROK was fun and had interesting things to say about colonialism and culture in diaspora, there were few moments of actual heart and pathos to be found. Thor’s journey was also overwhelmed by a weak version of Planet Hulk.

Without having read Aaron & Ribic’s God Butcher arc, it struck me that all the suspense, horror, mystery, and wonder had been leeched out of LOVE AND THUNDER in favor of tepid comedy and plot beats without wonder or surprise.

You never question who’s killing gods and why because Gorr’s origin happens immediately. There’s no surprise reveal of his motivations, nor any indictment of Thor, when he’s needed indicting for his last two films. Seriously-- RAGNAROK is an indictment of colonial violence and we’ve seen Thor commit wanton acts of colonial violence over and over again. LOVE AND THUNDER is about gods not being there when people need them, and we’ve seen Thor continually peace out on Jane AND ignore a religious & racial genocide during this film’s Guardians of the Galaxy sequence… and that’s before Thor demolishes culturally significant buildings.

You never question why Jane is the Mighty Thor because her origin occurs immediately. There’s no shocking reveal that emotionally gut punches the audiences and, again, there’s no indictment of Thor for not having been there or not doing enough when that is the movie’s theme.

Well, kinda. It’s the organic theme of the script, but it’s not the theme that director Taika Waititi wants it to have, and that’s part of the problem. We’ll get into that.



#127 Thor
Real Name: Thor Odinson
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 7
Points: 300/150/75
Keywords: Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Asgardian, Warrior, Deity

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Love and Thunder: If this character did not begin at their highest point value and another friendly character with this trait began the game in your starting area, you may start this character 1 click above their starting click.
Making Child Soldiers: Friendly characters with , the Kid or Teen keywords, or characters who are understood to be children 13 years-old or younger have Energy Blast and Willpower this game.
Oblivious Hero: Thor ignores the first use of Outwit on him this round. // Pulse Wave deals penetrating damage to Thor. SAFEGUARD: Pulse Wave.

UPDATED 07/11/22 - Thanks, Kaden!

Love and Thunder was a weird one for me. There were moments that were genuinely fun that made me want to love it, and I really don't mind the direction they've gone with a more light-hearted Thor (even if sometimes I miss the noble space viking from the comics). I was honestly a pretty big fan of Ragnarok, so I was hopeful for this one. To be fair, I thought there were some good moments between Jane, Thor, Korg, and Valkyrie, but my problems start with Gorr. The God Butcher arc was the very first arc I read of Thor and is one of my all time favorites (seriously anyone who hasn't read it and is at least a little curious about Thor ought to give it a shot. It's a really really fun read), and this movie doesn't feel like a true adaptation at all. I think I would have fewer problems if they had used some other story or even just made their own. I also agree it was a total miss to not build up the suspense around Jane. Everyone knew she was the Mighty Thor, but they could have hidden her condition until later on. It could have been a serious gut-punch with the right build up.

I could keep rampling here, and I definitely will with other dials; but overall, I guess I was entertained by the movie. It was a fun way to spend a few hours on a day off, but I don't really care if I ever see it again. It felt like it had an identity crisis of wanting to be lighthearted and fun while also telling a serious story. Which don't get me wrong, that absolutely can be done! Love and Thunder just didn't quite do it for me. Credits where they're due though, some recent MCU projects have been a little iffy on the special effects side of things, but I felt like Love and Thunder had some pretty top notch effects.

Might I recommend making the last power "Protected: Pulse wave". otherwise PW will just shut it off and will work normally on him.

Glad you had a mostly fun time with the film! That's about my take, and admitting that you called a few of my upcoming points, I don't think it's a bad movie by any stretch, it just isn't an elegant one that struggles to know what kind of story to tell and how best to tell it. Throughout the screening, I reminded myself that Taika directed both Thor movies to entertain his 10 year-old son, and that's noble in its own right.

While I mostly haven't minded the humor in the MCU, I could understand why a Thor fan might start to be displeased with his U-turn into a himbo personality. I'm most familiar (not saying much) with the Walt Simonson run, and I'm kinda happy I didn't see a goofus version of Beta Ray Bill.

Honestly, I'm nervous to see my main favorites adapted into MCU-style comic relief like Moon Knight was. Ghost Rider, Man-Thing, Blade... don't hurt me any more than some of those pre-MCU movies already have...
Haha that is a very Heroclix bit of rules addendum to need, but I absolutely respect it. I've updated the dial and sent you some rep. Thanks, friend!

Ha, rampling. Just noticed that.

Personally, the run I know the best is from Jason Aaron's time on the book (I've also been catching up on Donny Cates run. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but it's been pretty alright overall. Leaves me feeling about the same as I do about his Venom run). Coincidentally, that's the run that introduces both Gorr and Jane as the Mighty Thor, so that might also be a part of why I was a little let down here since the movie's main beats come from a run I'm really into. But, while both come from the same run, they're very spaced out. In fact, it's the conflict with Gorr that directly leads into Jane becoming the new weilder of Mjolnir as the Odinson tries to find a new path in life as the Unworthy Thor. All that to say, I think this would have been done better split into two movies. Give us conflict with Gorr as the incredible villain he should be, and then lead into Jane taking up the hammer in the next film. But then I guess it's easy to say that as a fan and not someone involved at all with film production.

Honestly, friend, for as long as we know the comics have been story testing grounds for the movies -basically since the word go- it's fair to expect the movies to either tell those stories well or to improve upon them, as a few of the movies have. This is a situation like X-MEN 3: THE LAST STAND where two dissimilar stories were combined to half of each of their original potency, imho.

Gorr’s motivation is that because his (very real) god ignored his dying race, all gods should die. Thor, shown repeatedly throughout the MCU and this film, to be an apathetic, egotistical god, fits this description and stands to learn from Gorr’s Killmonger-esque grievance. There’s a good, natural story in this with a clear character arc and room for pathos.

LOVE AND THUNDER instead wants to be a romance move between Thor and Jane, and while it’s fun that Natalie Portman has given her character a worthy send-off, it’s out of step with the film’s ideology—that of the role of deities, whether or not people need them, and what role Thor has in all this.

The other problem is that it’s not a particularly good romance move or rom com. Seriously, none of the beats are set up to maximize their effectiveness and make the heart swoon. It has the effectiveness of Nicktoons in love. This needed to be a romance like LOVE AND OTHER DRUGS or ALL MY LIFE, where recognition of the partner’s condition and managing it is a MAJOR deal. It almost achieves that emotional realism by the end, but it doesn’t really have the story structure to earn it and make us truly feel it. Yes, there are montages of Thor & Jane’s relationship, but these are things we’re shown; because they’re not dramatized, they aren’t things we feel.



#128 The Mighty Thor
Real Name: Dr. Jane Foster
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 7
Points: 300/150/75
Keywords: Asgardian, Scientist, Warrior

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Love and Thunder: If this character did not begin at their highest point value and another friendly character with this trait began the game in your starting area, you may start this character 1 click above their starting click.
Dying With Each Use of the Hammer: Colossal Stamina. If Mighty Thor made a ranged attack last turn, Battle Fury until the end of your turn.
Fragmenting Mjolnir: Jane may use Pulse Wave as if she occupied a square within her range and line of sight.

To Natalie Portman's credit, Jane was one of my favorite parts of the movie. While the story and themes are all over the place, I think she played the part well, and I really enjoyed just how much fun Jane was having getting to be a superhero. A lot of her excitement, right down to trying to decide on a catchphrase, feels exactly like what I would do too if given the chance. I definitely agree though, the romance felt a little flat to me. The potential there was huge with Jane coming to terms with her diagnosis and the "not-quite-immortal-but-pretty-dang-close" Thor trying to grasp what that means and even ties back to the start of the movie with Quill talking about how it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. They kind of leaned into that at the end, but without enough build up it didn't quite have the impact I think it could have.

And not to just keep harping on a point lol, but the arc you describe in your first point is quite literally what the original comic arc was. Thor being told by an omnipotent Nick Fury that Gorr was right and the gods are in fact too apathetic and egotistical therefore no god is worthy leading into Jane getting the hammer, so why they didn't choose to adapt that as well (yknow without the omnipotent Nick Fury probably) is beyond me.

Agreed, Portman is a lot of fun in the role, and it helps that she feels well-written throughout. The only thing that bums me out is how much of Jane's character revolves around Thor and that the movie saw fit to fridge her. It's the same kind of bending over backwards to make it not feel like fridging that killing Black Widow in ENDGAME had.

It's MINDBLOWING that was the Aaron/Ribic arc -that the point is that no god is worthy and that Jane takes over as Thor. Like, holy s***, that's the most natural and organic path for this movie to take and it's so goddamn rich and full of thematic potential -criticisms of blind worship, criticism of organized religion, criticism of leaders and billionaires, criticism of superheroes, etc.- and the movie's so damned determined not to have a legitimate conversation or engage with its audience on an intellectual level.

Again, there's no reason why this couldn't be a comedy film with a deeper message. Such films and shows are dime a dozen. It's striking that this is just determined not to be.

I shouldn't be SUPER surprised, because THOR: RAGNAROK didn't want to indict Thor for his colonial actions, nor did it want to engage with the depth and pathos of the Planet Hulk comic.

I understand wanting to make a film accessible to kids, but I feel you could absolutely cover those topics on a level a child could understand while still make a solid movie. But again, and I hate to harp on a point, I really really question using Gorr as a villain in that style of movie. Thor has SEVEN DECADES of villains to pull from (this year is actually Thor's 70th anniversary apparently, so hey good for him). I know I'm getting ahead of myself here since we haven't even gotten to Gorr yet, but the way I see it there were two paths they could have gone instead:

1. Go with a different villain. Give us someone fun like Fin Fang Foom or Amora or even Ulik or something. A lighthearted Asgardian focused film where Thor ends up overwhelmed and needs the additional help from Jane and Friends and the two work together and do their action rom-com adventure. Keep things very upbeat and bright and focus on really developing the relationship before the reveal of Jane's diagnosis and struggle. Really make that s**tty feeling Starlord was going on about at the start of the movie sink in. Since the original film really wanted to focus on ideas of love and loss.
2. Separate this into two movies. First: Thor: God Butcher. A darker and more serious story where Gorr is built up to be the threat he should be. Maybe even bring the other two Thors from different points in his life to shown how he's grown and how much more maturing is left to be done. Have the big epic struggle against Gorr and wrap things up with a Thor win, but leave the audience ready for more as the film's conclusion implies Thor is no longer worthy as Gorr is portrayed as being extreme, but having a point. Second: Thor: The Mighty. All about the mystery of the new Goddess of Thunder. More down to earth and lighthearted. Take things back to an almost Phase One style of origin story where Jane battles Frost Giants and takes on the evils of the Roxxon Corporation. Explore what it means to be a hero and let Jane build her own identity and have fun as a goddess while battling against cancer as a mortal like the original run.

Could just be fanboy wishes and an additional two movies is a lot of commitment, but I think either option could possibly have led to a better received story.

I think either solution would've given the movie a stronger sense of plot, character, focus, and identity! And both sound good! I'm just spellbound that neither happened.

Haha and no worries about talking Gorr now! I wrote the essay portion of this as it occurred to me, so I'm definitely cool talking about things as they come up C:

If I had to guess what happened, both of Taika's Thor movies are Hollywood-style reactions to THOR: THE DARK WORLD. Hollywood rarely accepts failure for the real reason things failed, because that means accepting responsibility for bad decisions like (in THE DARK WORLD's case) "let's make a movie all about Infinity Stone exposition," "Let's make a super boring opening 30 minutes on Earth," and "let's put all the movie's charisma in Loki." Instead, the takeaway is, "whoa, I guess audiences don't like dark movies anymore."

Thus, the correction is a movie like THOR: RAGNAROK that's all fun, all the time and where its protagonist doesn't have to accept emotional responsibility or blame for anything -unlike both of its predecessors. RAGNAROK does this more successfully than LOVE AND THUNDER (though I contend that the tepid Planet Hulk second act is a sidestory compared to what's happening on Asgard [though getting out of Asgard was very likely the point]). ...but because LOVE AND THUNDER got a weak critical response and only had the MCU's 12th best opening weekend at the box office, we might see THOR 5 correct a little bit more toward tonal and narrative balance.

Hopefully.

All these issues I mention are exacerbated by the fact that this is chiefly an action comedy. Don’t get me wrong, many of the beats in this movie are legitimately funny. Thor’s intro with the Guardians of the Galaxy (who we aren’t dialing for being insignificant to the plot) is fantastic fun. There’s also some good pathos and more challenging emotions in Gorr’s origin and Jane’s cancer treatment scenes. Gorr is also periodically creepy…

…but the humor steps on all these scenes. It steps on the romance, it steps on the horror—it steps on all the beats that are intended to land harder. It’s not like you can’t be funny and have it both ways –GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 2 is a decent example, because it knows when it needs to have somber beats. Same for PEACEMAKER, NO WAY HOME, and even Taika Waititi’s JOJO RABBIT.

The dude has definitely made weighty and substantive movies; he just didn’t do so here.



#129 Valkyrie
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0
Points: 75
Keywords: Asgardian, Warrior, Ruler

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New Asgard's King: Leadership & Combat Reflexes.
On Aragorn's Wings: and Charge.
Zeus' Lightning Bolt: Blades/Claws/Fang. // Phasing/Teleport, Passenger: 3.// 6