Nah, I don't think of it as a loophole. Well, not of the "Bright Lights lets you see through walls" loophole variety, anyway. There's gotta be some other perks for having Oracle off the board since she can't be wild carded and she can be victim to Earthquake and Pimp Slap. And I figure most folks using the CSA are just going to use a pair of 2-point pogs to toss the tokens onto, so someone using ICWO for this purpose would spend more points.

As has been pointed out, you absolutely can counter the Outwit which is granted by the Superman Enemy team ability. CSA and SE are the only two team abilities in the game which specify that your figure is granted a power; in each case, an opponent's Outwit can be used on that granted power.

A team ability like Batman Ally is not Stealth; it may duplicate the effects of Stealth, but is not itself the superpower Stealth, nor does it grant you the superpower. This is why Outwit can do nothing to remove the effects of an ability like Batman Ally.

The rule is consistent---you cannot Outwit team abilities, but if a team ability actually grants you a superpower, then that power can be Outwitted just like any other.

Good catch! With the current wording, it looks like you can place action tokens on Oracle when she is off the board; however, if hair10 thinks this is too abusive, I'll trade that for her NOT being affected by BFCs.

There is no reason that she has to be effected by BFCs and TAs. It could be that BFCs will still effect her, but she won't be effected by TAs (or this TA in particular.)

I pointed this out a month ago. See


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It is a very bad ruling to have characters off-the-map be affected by Battlefield Conditions. "Global Earthquake" indeed. But why, you ask?…

Lazarus Pit
When time expires, or if all other members of the character's force are KOd while the character is on this card, the character is KOd.

In Contact With Oracle
If your last agent is KOd while Oracle in on this card, Oracle is also KOd.

The wording on the cards overrides standard game mechanics. As written, these are the only ways to KO the characters on those cards. Even if they are Earthquaked to a KO click, they are not KOd and may heal back up (LP) or be placed on a different click (ICWO) later. Not such a big deal…

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But it also affects captured characters during Crosswinds.

Big Fig Rules
That character is no longer considered to be on the battle map and is out of the game unless rescued.

Now we have Earthquake affecting characters who are out of the game. Does this mean that all KOd figs are dealt three clicks as well, possibly ressurecting them? Must we now click all the damage to a character, instead of stopping at the first KO, so they may be closer to their first click in case of Earthquake?

Is this truly your interpretation of the "Intent" of these BFCs? I hate to say it, but the current reign has me almost missing DrGandalf (whom I loathed).

Welcome, fridayweb.
You last visited: 09-18-2004 at 08:38 AM

Exactly. I never use their forums because of the login thing, and their inferior board setup. They're using the default vBulletin 3 layout which is just unpleasant.

Can you put a Sentinel or Sinestro Construct in the Pit. I think you can. I would assume that the pit would then be 4 squares in size. Since other figures can not be placed in the Pit square. This could be used in rare situations as a strategic map control device. Oh the Sentinel dies, well there is 4 squares you can't put a figure at. I think Sentinel in the pit could be fun. I would hope never to roll the 5-6 after its back because Willpower and Toughness on the Sentinel would be fun.

If Oracle is off the map, where does she go if you bring her back with a Lazarus Pit?


I'll never do it, but it seems like an irritating question.

...and more importantly...will she be able to walk again?

This is still under consideration, but the answer is most likely "no".

Well, there are two options here.

Option 1
If Oracle is on the ICwO card then she cannot be assigned the Lazarus Pit. Lazarus Pit states...

"When the character is KOd, remove it from the battlefield,"

... and since Oracle isn't on the battlefield, the conditions would never occur. Therefore, there isn't any reason to assign Oracle the Lazarus Pit card (unless you just wanted to hand your opponent the points for Lazarus Pit when Oracle was KO'ed ).

Option 2
We ignore the fact that Oracle isn't on the battlefield and allow her to use the LP card. But when Oracle "came back" she would be placed back on the battlefield as the Lazarus Pit card states...

"... you may either heal the character of 1 damage or return it to the battlefield on the square with the Special marker".

Some condition would have to be created to determine where the special marker was when she was KO'ed. She would not be able to be placed back on the ICwO card since it states she has to be placed there at the beginning of the game.


Personally, I'd lean towards option 1. It's simpler and requires no special conditions other than she can't be assigned Lazarus Pit if she will be used by placing her on the ICwO card.

Unless you make a special condition, doesn't Option 2 end the same as option on. As there is no Special marker for her to return to, isn't she instantly KOd and your opponent will get the points for her again. :d

And can't she be attached to Lazarus Pit either way? But it would just end up in you handing points over to your opponent. This would be similar to putting two Trick Shots on the same character. You can only benefit from one of them, but when the character is KOd the opponent would get points for both.

Right... like I said, a special condition for where the marker would go would have to created in order for option 2 to be feasable.

I suppose so, but if nothing was done and I let it stand "as is" (with the implied understanding that if you put both cards on Oracle, the Lazarus Pit would have no real function) then it would be something I would keep an eye out for how many players and judges messed it up... or at least how often the question comes up. I can see it being "FAQ-worthy" if it pops up often enough. Or at the very least, an entry under "Lazuras Pit" stating something about when figs are removed from the battlefield for any reason other than LP(thereby covering any future possibilites as well).

Spoil the fun why don't ya It makes since that you would not be able to it, but it would be fun. However, until it is ruled that way, I got to try it at least once.

How does a 60 foot robot or a huge light construct get revived anyway? It's not 10W30 in those pits you know. How would that hunk o' junk even fit in a Lazarus Pit?!?!