I won't bore you with re-typing what I typed above but if you get a chance, re-read it and see why it doesn't matter if the Registration Act was passed yet. That wasn't the law Cap was breaking. He was a deputized and registered ally of SHIELD with all benefits and responsibilities that entails. When they came to him and told him, "Hey, this is your next mission." and he said he would oppose them - at first he said he wouldn't oppose them physically but would in other ways - he was essentially going fully "rogue". SHIELD is a covert agency - they play by different rules and once you get into bed with a group like that you don't get to pick and choose what you do and don't want to do.

I'm personally strongly anti-registration on principle, regardless of how it's handled. Forcing heroes to register with the government is essentially punishing them for nothing, or worse, for helping people.

If a hero does something wrong, take them to court. If all they do is help people out, and you try and force them to give up their freedom, you are punishing them just for being who they are, or for how they were born. It would be like registering all geniuses because of a few evil geniuses, on the basis that genius can be used to hurt people. I doubt anybody would support that sort of legislation.

Captain America doesn't screw around with the basic pillars that make the US what it is. Vigilante justice built this country (see the Revolutionary War for more on this).

My reply was to sluggo who said that Cap's refusal was against the law and as you say, Cap was not breaking the law at that time.

First up, the mission was conditional on the registration being passed. Until it was passed most of the conversation remains hypothetical. But you're saying what SHIELD did is not against the law because they don't have to follow any laws? I don't know too much about SHIELD but if that's the case then fine, they weren't doing anything "illegal" but it makes SHIELD something I'd oppose.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just more often against the heroes.

It was going to be. And cap KNEW what refusing to help Shield would mean and he still decides not to help. You're making it sound like Shield blind sided him or something. They told him what the deal was, and he refused to get on board.

And they are using that same power to hold the "customs" without trail. Either they register, or they are locked up. Simple. And the New Warriors weren't doing anyone any harm until Nitro exploded either.

Very rarely is every hero in the entire world mindcontrolled. Usually it's just one impressive team. Because the team is always together and easy to hit since they all have the same viewing matieral place of residence. It's a lot easier to mindcontrol 6 or 7 X-men than it is to mindcontrol Spiderman, Punnisher, Daredevil and Doc Samson.

If Shield gets it's way and the Bill passes Supervillains will have a line around the block about who gets to mindcontrol them and who gets to order their arch enemy on a suicide mission.

I'd hate to see the next generation of Superhero too. Two or three generations down the line and the new superhero army would likely be used to make some ambitious general "President for Life."

If I were a hero in the Marvel U i'd just packup shop, leave for some tropical paradise that would appreciate a hero and wait for America to come back to me apologizing and asking me to join a group of people who left the country to stop whoever turned the superheroes against them.

If I were a regular person, i'd just keep watching this over and over again until the whole thing ended.

http://yoga.at.infoseek.co.jp/flash/kaijin_e.swf

Until the law was passed he wasn't breaking it. SHIELD called him up to tell him about the registration, tell him they'd be sending him out to capture people, and had their people prepared to take Cap out at this time (knowing he'd be against the idea). That is a bit of "blind siding" in my mind.

Not sure what that first part means, but as you say, Nitro exploded (with some added help from Damage Control if I'm not mistaken), not the New Warriors. They were wreckless, I'll give you that and I have conceded that the status quo might not be the best solution but I refuse to see this blind registration as any better.

I love how you just say "Either they register, or they are locked up. Simple." In my mind, it shouldn't be "simple" for a government to pick citizens who have done nothing and detain them without trial for as long as they like.

Actually, Zemo and Purple Man recently mind controlled every super being and citizen in New York City (save the Thunderbolts). Zemo was attempting to corral Photon/Genis-vel, as Genis was going to destroy the multi-verse down the road.

While Zemo has apparently turned over a new leaf (although he's still machavellian about doing things), it just goes to show what could go down.

My basic problem with the Superhero registration law is how it's been implemented, and the idea that we don't know who these guys/gals are.

SHIELD already knows who they all are, so saying the law needs to be passed for that reason is bunk.

SHIELD or the US Government should be the ones taking down the heros most of the time. As it is, the pro-reg guys have spent more time figuring out how to backstab their friends, then actually fighting villains. The mainstream government supers should have little, to NO involvement in taking down their friends in the field. First, it lets them look like the good guys (if they are out fighting crime, they put a positive spin on the bill/law). Second, no one will question their legitamacy (would you trust Iron Man if he's suddenly turned on his long time friend, and spends all his time tracking that friend down and hunting him?).

Lastly, there is the implication that by registering, they can force you to be an active super. This is out and out un-American. This little part of the law is an entirely valid reason to oppose it. All supers should register, however, they shouldn't all have to serve (if you want to be active, then you carry the badge, if not then the government shouldn't bother you...EVER).

We do have some precedence for non government run people. The Red Cross with disaster relief, private eyes, rl bounty hunters, etc. They must work within the laws, and carry a license, but are not, nominally, federal types.

My problem isn't the concept, it's in the wording and actions of that concept.

But... That's what is being done. Capes being picked up and tossed into a jail in the negative zone, where they can be held forever. Stark explains this to Peter. They're not breaking any law by detaining these people forever. And that's what the plan is.

Wow, I just couldn't believe I read this. The people being detained in a extra-dimensional prison are in large part American citizens being held there precisely to abrogate their "Natural rights". Check out our Constitution we have the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuits of Happiess. Actually, that's from another source but it's very ingrained in us as Americans. Interpretation and 200+ years of laws have given us the right to a speedy trial. Something that's not ever planning to be done in this case. How 'bout Habeus Corpus, that if you're arrested you have to be charged, tried then face punishment, imprisonment, etc. Another law broken there, shall we also get into cruel and unusual punishment? The hero known as Digitek killed himself, loss to the Marvel Universe negligable, but that's at least one soul that should weigh on the Pro-Reg side. Supposedly, they were going to lock up Rage with adults, and I know for sure that people have frowned on children being locked up with adult in the same facility. Not that I like to side with the NRA, but the whole right to bear arms may also play a part here.

To sum up, supporting this means also supporting agenies that might show up one day to take honest citizens away to a foreign location simply so their rights would not be in force and they could then be held with a trite label and their family and friends would not be allowed to find out what happened to them simply because the ruling class or politician felt like it.

Are you willing to trust your fellow citizens with a-bombs then?

Ironically, Cap is behaving 'right wing' in that the individual's rights outweigh the collective's, or 'left wing'. Cap is libertarian, Iron Man is authoritarian (note lack of caps on affiliation...a Democratic republic is not necessarily a democratic republic (and very rarely is) and a republican may not be a Republican)

Nothing has been done yet. The way i saw it, they didn't want to just let her walk away. We've seen it in many professions where people retire than return, so if I worked for SHIELD, I wouldn't take their word for it. I think it's a matter of time before they go after her.

Arana was thinking of just not using her powers anymore in Ms. Marvel. Think that'll take? There are people who have powers and have never used them in public, good or bad, that don't want that public profile, but are afraid that if they do show that they have powers that they will ahve to register.

They didn't know he'd be against it, nor were they fully prepared to take him down. In an issue of New Avengers he talked about another squad that came to get him and how they were prepared. Like I said, call the FBI and tell them youwant to kill the president. You havn't threatened him or killed him yet, but they'll come get you.

They have done something, refuse to register. And IRL the US and Canadian governments have done the samething for a lot less.

All those being detained in the negative zone have broken the law, in which case we lose those rights. And a government (including the American one) detaining people without a trail is nothing new.

I'm Pro Registration

I also have to side with Iron-Man. Not because of his actions, which have been reprehensible, but because the basic idea of registration is the right thing to do. For years I have been reading Marvel comics and thinking who is responsible for the city block that just got destroyed because two “heroes” got into a tussle. How many people just died that we did not see in the comic panels. Hulk vs. Wolverine, Thor vs. Hercules, Torch vs. Namor, Hulk vs. Thing, Punisher vs. anybody. These are just an example of seasoned vets who should know better. I would want them held accountable for their actions, especially if it was my property that was destroyed. Insurance companies must hate life in the Marvel Universe.
I totally agree with Rokk Krinn’s stance. I would not want someone with as much power as some superheroes have not being trained in how to use and control it. At least the X-Men trained night and day to allow their students to properly utilize their abilities. Who trained the New Warriors and look what happened? If you want to be a superhero you will be trained by seasoned superheroes and deemed competent in the use of your powers. Not only that but that you are of sane and sound mind to carry out the duties of which you aspire to do. Would you want just anybody joining the military to protect your freedoms?
Having a military background I do not want any Joe Shmoe joining my Marine Corps because they think it would be cool to carry a rifle to be watching my back on patrol. The military is picky for a reason. Carelessness and incompetence gets people sent home in black bags.
I also see Shield like another branch of the Military. When you are part of the Military the constitution no longer applies to you. You are now governed by their rules and regulations. You are an asset and you follow orders or you get out. Captain America disobeyed an order and was subject to punishment (containment). Join the military and try and disobey an order. Your life will suck real fast. Now fight back (physically) when you are going to be disciplined. Your life will not only suck but you are going to hurt too.
I don’t like the way Marvel is writing Iron-Man either. Marvel’s stance in the Civil War story seems to be an effort to convince people that the right wing stance is wrong. In America right now we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. If the government didn’t listen in on key telephone conversations and a terrorist plot came to fruition because of it the people would say “why didn’t our government protect us?” If the government does listen in on conversations of suspicion the people will say “my constitutional rights are being violated.” Both are valid.
Registration and training should not be done all under one branch of Shield either. As stated before that is folly. We have more than one branch of the military with different duties and purposes. So too should Shield’s registered heroes. The Local Heroes Division for lower and mid power level heroes. These are your Daredevils, Elektras, and Spider-Men. The Cosmic Heroes Division is held for higher power heroes like Quasars, Thors, and Novas. Mystics Heroes Division for trans-dimensional and magical Heroes like Dr. Stranges, Cleas, and Talismans. I’m sure there are other divisions as well that could be formed, but that’s all I have for now.

Thulsa Doom the other side to that is 1) What about the safety of those heroes and their families? We've seen what most villians are willing to do when/if they get the oppertunity to attack a hero through his loved ones. Creating such a registry is just ASKING for trouble. And Bendis's run on Daredevil showed us what can happen when a superheroes ID is public 2) While the heroes would be trained, they would also be control by the government and/or military. There would be no more Spider-Man to drop down and help the woman who is about to raped, or the man about to be beaten becaues the military/governmernt would him out serving their best interests. 3) Is it right to arrest and charge someone like Daredevil or Spider-man who just want to protect their families and still be able to help the "small" people and know that won't happen if they register?