I am quite excited about it (and can;t wait to field mixed bag what if theme teams lol)

RIGHT ON. Great way to put a positive spin on all the "uncertainty" associated with the new sets. I, for one, will continue to play even if the new implementations do not work well (even though I'm totally stoked for them) because, after all, it's HeroClix, man.

I know I am kind of a newbie around here but Ithought I would contribute a bit by responding both pro and con to all this:

A great point that is true with every set. Not trying to be arguementive but I was kind of confused why this was on the list since it has been a given every set that comes out.

I have to agree alot on this, BPRD and Marvel Zombie shave proven that, I wonder if the move is to make the mechanics a bit more like horrorclix though. I think it could work ultimitly (I know I have thought to pick a few up lately) however other games I am not so sure about. Mage knight could have worked too but that was demolished (see later) Mechwarrior just doesn't quite fit in as well both in scale and mechanics, sportclix would be a foolish notion. could be that there are newer games we are unaware of, but still it seems that Horrorclix were ment to be somewhat compatable from the get go.

I go back and forth on this one. Mostly the examples we have seen give a pretty solid idea what the character can do, but in some ways seem a waste of paper (in that you have a powers card that describes everyone), however there would be no place for the special power without them too. Still I can see this becomeing an organizational nightmare (digging for the one characters card before the game can begin). Still it has possiblities. I doubt I am abandoning the old one card very quicky though.

There is another point that makes the cards good that I feel fits in the next catagory better

This is one of the things I think will work but not for the reason listed (again I am lost on the reasoning of experenced players haveing an edge here, but I digress). But what it does do is allow for more powers without haveing to add a bunch of colors that will get mixed up with the old colors (another mage knight flaw). This is already an issue with powers like Exploit weakness and support, which the individual powers cards will help with. But without that no more newer powers could be added without some major prolems IMO, and to me for the game to stay vital and expand it needs new powers.

The Martian Manhunter remark is kind of what got me to write all this, still of course there will be new sculpts, another given when there is a new set, I still feel the obvious doesn't need to be pointed out in this list, again my opinion.

In someways yes but in some ways no. Sometimes it doesn't matter how rare the click is, if its not in demand no one will want it (an example might be Vidicator unique, fairly rare but when found doesn't run that high a price since she isn't in demand verses lets say Vet Doomsday from Hypertime, who by all rights should be less rare but it seems everytime I see him for sale he is higher than Vindy who isn't in demand).

Character plays a part as does rareity but so does playablility. Ultimate Thor and KC Superman would never have gone for so much if all of those factors weren't in play. Still I see the idea behind it and understand where wizkids gets the idea from. but in the end I will bet that we will see some "Rare" peices go for less than certain Common and Uncommon

What does bother me about that is the fun that was had with REV's Like Captian Marvel/Photon and others that would get different paint apps accouring tothier status. I can remember when this first started (I believe it was with Wonder Man if I am not mistaken) and everyone was after the V version of him.

This idea seems ok, but I have yet to see it utialized in a way I am happy with. I am holding judgement on this one until later.

First I thought that was the intent (at least it has always been a MAJOR selling point with me) but I have yet to see how the "Keywords" cause this to happen, in fact it forces you to be more creative IMO (Which has been a bit of a hobby of mine anyway determining how guys like Deathstroke, Shazam and Firestar might be together with the Punisher and Captain America, to me it was another layer of the fun).

Of course one thing is that no offical word has been dropped on that (that I have seen), so Lockjaw and Joker could still be viable. Still one of the major selling points on this upgrade has been that it doesn't eliminate the old figures (much the way Mage Knight 2.0 did by making the dials totally obsolite). I would hate to think about how much money I have invested in this game only to have it be demolished by a rule modification or two (in fact that is what happened to me and Mage Knight, I tossed the new stuff and continued to play with the old until people just quit).

However I do think WK is playing it smarter this time by keeping most of the older figs viable in the game. I think they learned a hard lesson from MK 2.0 and are trying (note I say trying) to update the game where its needed while keeping the core mechanics as intact as possible. That still remains to be seen fully, but that is the appearence at least. I certainly hope that is the case.

I only mention this due to the contradiction above in the "retirement" I mean no offence but it becomes confusing when someone is praising the ends of certain figures and a few seconds later is praising those figures are still usefull. Still I get the point but wanted to mention the whiplash effect it has on the reader.

I consider 5-9 negative aspects to the whole experience. I am excited for the change but character cards and new rules are just dumb. Character cards especially since Wizkids has not perfected a method to make sure the cards get included in every booster box AND do so unmolested. It's frustrating.

I like the positivity, and the sound of the set, but I do not find retirement in any way, shape, or form such a good thing. Helps newer players? Get used to it, theres going to be people that have killer better teams then you, new pieces or not. By retiring you simply hurt old players and might as well toss out most of them. "Oh, we'll get to see original teams" Bull, and like it matters. Just because a new set comes out, doesn't mean there won't be pieces that will create the same effect, you just eliminate those of us without the cash from big events and yes, force everyone else to buy more. I'd rather play and lose to a team that has been proven good and keep the value of my older figs, then just lose to new ones because I suck then to rub some salt in also lose the value of my pieces. Oh wait, I wouldn't be playing against many of those new teams because the only thing I can play in will be unrestricted/HRs. Heres to hoping its all just rumors. They were for mechwarrior.

[quote=IronRaptor]I like the positivity, and the sound of the set, but I do not find retirement in any way, shape, or form such a good thing. Helps newer players? Get used to it, theres going to be people that have killer better teams then you, new pieces or not. By retiring you simply hurt old players and might as well toss out most of them. "Oh, we'll get to see original teams" Bull, and like it matters. Just because a new set comes out, doesn't mean there won't be pieces that will create the same effect, you just eliminate those of us without the cash from big events and yes, force everyone else to buy more. I'd rather play and lose to a team that has been proven good and keep the value of my older figs, then just lose to new ones because I suck then to rub some salt in also lose the value of my pieces. Oh wait, I wouldn't be playing against many of those new teams because the only thing I can play in will be unrestricted/HRs. Heres to hoping its all just rumors. They were for mechwarrior.[/QUOTE

Starwars minis and D&D minis as well as magic and VS have all survived with retirment of sorts it keeps the game fresh, forces people to part from thier tried and tested pieces ... do i think it should be all retirement all the time ... no, but some of the time i will be running restricted sometimes i wont probly at about 50% of the time to each ....

There are players who never stray from the same few pieces or people that will play a similar army every week and if you force them to only use current sets then they are forced to re-think thier strategy and re-plan their forces

Im not sure I like the keyword thing sure it seems ok but when Mandarin and IronMan can team up because they both have scientist for there keyword it makes no sense when they said they were trying to help theme teams just because you are a scientist does not mean you should be able to team up with another scientist an arc enemy at that and is evil and you get a bonus for that come on you can do better..

But most of the stuff other than that seems nice like the white power and the REV being done away with I like ..

WhatJ

I've been a tabletop/card (poker, pinochle, collectable)/RPG/minis/tactical game player long enough to recognize a 'geeky homebrew game mechanic' when I see one, and here's why I think of the "special white powers" as such:

1. They are being shoe-horned into an existing point/cost formula, with nothing except 'design intervention' to determine cost. The best example I can think of from my own experiences are from some of the early variant outfits for ships in the original Star Fleet Battles, but I am sure that similar problems existed in other games. The difference between SFB and WK minis? SFB revised point costs once players actually started evaluating the ships! WK has steadfastly refused to errata or revise point costs, and now we are moving into a domain in which "special" powers cannot have any common mathematical formula applied to them.
2. Its strictly for "color" in an already colorful game. For some reason I am thinking of Elven Wardancers from Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The Heroclix game is incomplete because we have conspicously missing figures and poorly designed dials...not because there is no existing mechanic for "Toro" to make poison gas clouds. Gamer geeks love to introduce extra "color" without thinking through the consequences of their decisions (Thunderbolts anyone?)
3. The inclusion of "special white powers" decodable only by special cards is a blatant step towards making HeroClix just like many other existing game systems. It is the essence of a game geek to say "hey, game X has this cool mechanic, lets bring it into Game Y".

There is a reason homebrew rules don't often get adopted outside of the home...most of them are a lot more work for ultimately little return. Many of us here (rightly, IMO) busted Brazil's chops about the overly complicated nature of his rules/modifications...but guess what? Brazil won. We may not have his mish-mash of character-specific powers, but we are going to get somebody else's mish-mash of character-specific powers.

I'm optimistic we'll at least get keywords from Armor Wars to Supernova, just for the sake of restricted play.

But since none have been revealed since Origin last month...:disappoin

I just hope they finally make a playable Hulk figure in this set. Guess thats another reason to keep playing, the hope of getting a good version of one of your favorite charecters from the comics.

(You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Al_Mattityahu again.)

I can't believe that you haven't been rep'd for this yet.

YES!!!

I've been stressing this exact point for weeks now, I even had a 4 page thread dedicated to this topic going for a while that generated a lot of good discussion both for and against the Special Power Point Cost.

This is a VERY important point in my opinion that should not be overlooked. Sorry to bring up points not relevant to the original poster's theme, but I had to bring light to tidge's words of wisdom.

It's so refreshing to read someone else's thoughts echo so closely to my own!!!

I'd say 5, 6, & 10 are more reasons to keep collecting than playing and the elimination of REV's makes it harder to pick up every charactor for thier sculpt because there's no more cheap rookies to buy.

Don't get me wrong, I think I'll like this; but the jury is out until I see how hard they are to collect now. I wish they'd do away with different rarities as well as the REV system so it would be easier to collect charactors. That or make remakes more rare & new charactors less rare - I want the new guys!! I already worked hard to get one of each charactor (minus Ares, Krypto, Spectre, and a couple others like Queen Hippotheria)

I started out collecting rookies and started buying more as I played more. The rookie set to Origins had good stats so I again just bought a rookie set since I'm only playing at home now. Your level of interest in the game and collecting determine if the changes are good or not. I'm not a completionist or a tourney player. I want to fill out my displays and make adversarial match-ups so I want to see new charactors finish out teams, not remakes.

This might sound a little corney, but one of the main reasons I love playing clix is because I have met so many cool people playing it. I love my venue, it's so much fun, and the people there are great. HcRealms is awesome too, even though I haven't met a lot of you, I feel like we are somewhat friends, for the most part! So yeah, hanging with new people, meeting new people, that's what clix can do/does do.

And I agree with almost everything on the list(Except I don't like retirement, but whatever!)