I would love to get my hands on a DC version. Reading the article, it seems the only real difference is pretty much down to making dice rolls.

I'd also be interested in seeing how they both fare in a 300pt "Box 'em up" scenario.

Don't forget that first strike is reduced against DC ares because he can Soar.

I disagree with the review. The DC Ares clearly has the advantage in my opinion. They both cost the same, but in a straight up cardless fight, DC would take Marvel hands down. DC Ares only has to get within 10 squares of Marvel Ares to outwit his RS, then sit there and make Marvel come to him in the next round. Then the Mystics TA will whittle down Marvel's effectiveness.

...and now DC Ares can't Outwit Marvel Ares as he can only effect other Soaring figures. Ooops.

Marvel starts first.

Marvel moves.

DC soars to 15 squares from Marvel Ares.

Marvel moves or clears.

DC clears.

Marvel moves or clears.

IF Marvel is w/in 21 squares of DC, DC can phase to 10 squares away & outwit.

If DC goes first, he soars, and waits for Marvel to move w/in 21 squares, staying out of a 15 square box around marvel Ares.
See above.

I disagree with this. With the Marvel version having a 5 movement Running Shot, dropping the DC Ares within an 8 range distance in order to have a later shot (after moving the pog shield) will usually allow the Marvel version to run past the coverage arc of the pog and shoot anyway. If you're far enough away that the arc can't be bypassed, you're too far away to be a threat, so shooting the pog is a free point (even a 1 point KO putting the DC Ares in the classic "point deficit forced march" position).

Overall this match up is, IMO, the classic "who gets the first hit". Worth noting is while the Marvel version should get the first attack chance in almost all one on one circumstances, the not totally trivial 6 to hit (or 7, with hindering) combined with his target's Impervious makes that first strike quite chancy. Miss that attack, and the Outwit, 5 damage, and meager 4+ to hit retaliation makes it all DC Ares game. From that point on, the DC figure could literally win by standing still and letting the Marvel figure plink him at range for 1 damage and dish out Mystic backlash.

But hit the attack, and the DC version is 3 clicks down - but the Marvel is 1 click down. If the DC version then retaliates and hits (interestingly enough, with the same 6+ and Impervious roll chances), both figures end up at the same 3 clicks down spot on the dial (the DC figure having a slight stat advantage, but in the poor position of shooting second for each trade off). A continued trade off from that point on, with each figure clearing between shots and the Marvel figure attacking first, will put Marvel Ares exactly on his last click after nailing the DC figure (assuming a self Perplex on damage for the attacks).

Overall, the dice rolls don't favor the Marvel version - it cannot afford to miss a single shot without the DC figure also missing, and the DC figure is much more likely to hit on most shots. On a straight trade off the Marvel pulls the game out, but the God of War needs the blessings of the God of Luck to assure this. Strangely enough from a tactical standpoint, the Marvel version's best chances isn't by Running Shot for the first strike, but by hoping the DC version moves into 8 range first (meaning the DC figure's retaliation will either be a push, or the DC figure will clear allowing the Marvel figure to push to an all deciding follow up). Obviously the DC figure won't make that mistake, taking instead a "you've got Running Shot, use it" stance.

For playability purposes, I'd still choose the Marvel version. Attack mobility is what this game is all about (at least if you ignore the obvious and definitely not unimportant comic fanboy appeal), and the Marvel version has that in abundance where it counts.

Even ignoring the fact that you have to get within 10 with LOF (there are actually a couple maps where this could be tricky enough that a player could screw up in allowing the Marvel version to close within Running Shot distance but not have anyplace to position for an Outwit without being within 8 anyway), there is absolutely no advantage in being the exact same point cost and perpetually sitting outside range hoping your opponent is going to close the gap because you don't have the stones to do so. Best thing that chicken feed strategy could do is force a draw - and if I was a judge and was forced to make a decision on which player was stalling, it wouldn't be against the Marvel Ares player who has the on dial range advantage which the DC player is refusing to accept the reality of or commit against. If the DC version wants to mix it up at all, he is almost certainly going to have to concede the first strike. If he doesn't, he is by definition not going to win.

As for comments on soaring as an anti-first strike strategy, again, to what effect? Sitting up in the air, 5+ spaces away after any possible Running Shot, unable to retaliate yourself? Eventually having to drop to the ground to do anything, and thus being in shot range anyway? Same game - 275 vs 275 no KOs - result is a draw between The God of War and Brave Sir Robin. The only way this match up is going to be decided on a win-loss basis between intelligent players is by a brawl, and that brawl is almost certainly going to start with the Marvel player rolling the dice first.

But two can play the Stay-Out-Of-The-Zone game. If Marvel's Running Shot is Outwitted he can just step away instead of staying in DC's killing field.

It just makes for a rather dull game, both Ares players walking on egg shells to avoid making the first wrong move.

Personally this isn't even a contest. To simply use numerics and averages and break things down into categories gives a very poor actual analysis of how effective a figure is going to be in an actual game.

Ares DC ( much like Thanos ) is a powerful figure with no opening mobility and effectively no real chance to score a first strike. I would NEVER even CONSIDER running a 200+ point figure with this crippling handicap. SADLY, with no innate built in move and attack option in Heroclix, larger point figures NEED to have Charge, RS or HSS opening click to really be point effecient. Opening with Running Shot is more important than having 1 extra average point of damage, attack and defense in my eyes. ( Seeing how both figures have incredible stat curves as it is ) This first strike option is incredible. Not being a flier even allows him to be carried. Along the example of tying him up with a Pog, how is said Pog actually going to reach Ares anyways? Pogs have generally poor movement, and opening clix, Ares is going to keep his distance and maximize his ability to score first strikes. NOT get next to a pog. If played poorly, and outside of how his dial suggests, his lack of flight becomes a problem. If used smartly, it just allows him to be yo-yoed.

It is also somewhat unfair to ignore the option of Thunderbolts on Ares. Certain figures have blatant synergy with certain cards that simply do so much for them for the cost that it cannot really be overlooked. Ares gaining STEALTH via the Batman team ability is ridiculous. Incredibly high stat curve, ranged mobility, and forcing opponents to base him in order to even attack him? ( Stealth also preventing him from being outwitted in MOST cases ) For 5 extra points?

Ares ( DC ) I would never actually field in a game. ( Think Parallax ) Ares ( Marvel ) is the BEST high cost figure in the game ( YES, better than any of the superman figs due to his team ability, and the fact that HSS got nerfed )

Perhaps I am mistaken with my rules.. I thought that a ranged combatant (unless they changed it which the always do), could shoot out of base to base contact (if the lines of fliers were not blocked),. Perhaps I'm wrong with this. I am certainly not a judge or rules lawyer so it's entirely possible. IF that's the case, the yes there really isn't anything that gives the DC Ares the ranged advantage when the Marvel one starts with running shot.

It's also interesting to see how my reviews are taken in the context of: One on One on a map when I compare them like this. Not that there is anything wrong with that or anything.

Anyway I'm glad it's sparked a lot of discussion.

If anyone has any requests for future reviews please let me know. I'm currently working on an Ultimate Iron Man review, and need to know if anyone else has something they want to see or should I just continue to pick randomly.

Thanks,
-Justin

If the ranged combat target is also in base contact, yes. Otherwise, your choice of targets is rather limited.

Fliers ignoring based opponent figures when shooting other figures at long range was an anomaly of just one rule set, and was thankfully corrected since.

Now if you manage to pull the classic pog drop zig-zag:

DC--
--Pog
MV--

...you could shoot past the pog while having tied the Marvel Ares up. But then, the Marvel Ares will instead blast your pog, and move his own to block the gap.

Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to have it. Breaking things down by numbers is much more important than you think. IF you look at things like Average dice rolls (7 being the most common number to hit) if someone has an 11 attack an 18 is much more likely to be hit than a 19. 19 gets increasingly harder the lower the attack value.

If you've read all my reviews up to this point you see I mention the fact that cards can boost ANY characters potential, but I tend to do a CORE piece analysis meaning NO CARDS! Yes thunderbolts for 5 points gives the Marvel version some pretty ridiculous options. But for some people it's not thematic. I know I'm a theme player and I don't stick t-bolts on a team that's not t-bolts. I could also add hay maker to Ares to make him hit harder or whatever. But the assessment on the character should not need to take into account the extra cardboard when deciding if he's a "good figure" or not.

That's sad you wouldn't consider using the DC Ares with the stats he's got. Both Thanos and Ares whom are not running shotters are very very nasty pieces. Yes Thanos has it a little nicer being grounded and capable of being taxi'd but in the right point value games you can add a TK'er and allow the DC Ares to be Tk'd and get a shot in.

When I take into account the pog, I'm assuming that there is a Team facing the Marvel Ares and the pog has the potential to be carried, or tk'd or however to move infront of the Marvel Ares. Maybe another flier with running shot came running up into Ares' face and dropped a pog between the two. Who knows, but it's a strategy that can happen and if you think my statement about that is foolish than you need to rethink strategy when dealing with pogs.

Well there you go, thanks for the corrections. I apologize ahead of time for any other rules mistakes I make, but thankfully I'll have loyal readers there to help keep me on track!

The advantage belongs to who wins map roll in this particular circumstance I am afraid.