originally posted by:rouge2i did read the page, just didn't put in why i thought it was her, kind of why i also put it in a spoiler box for those who hadn't read it yet. maybe you should of thought of that, oops too late now, oh well. anyway.....

Quoted For Truth Justice and The American way.



There are times and places for new character introduction and a big summer crossover event is not it. This book should be about the character we love being challenged in new ways.

Not Grant Morrison making self absorbed sequels to his own books,

So, then I'm assuming you didn't like CoIE either. Since, as many people have seemingly forgotten, it introduced characters too. Or how about Secret Wars? New characters there, too. And those are the prototypes for what's come to be known as the "big summer crossover", so any argument that something doesn't belong in a crossover kinda fails when the originals featured that very same thing.

As for FC itself, I have yet to pick up #2, agree than #1 was kind of an iffy start, but would also like to point out that it seems to be functioning very well as the sequel to the Morrison JLA run and SSoV. Problems with Countdown, DotNG, etc. rest on the fact that DC Editorial has basically given Morrion free reign of the toybox, but let other people play with the toys at the same time.

But in CoIE The Main protagonists did not take a back seat to new characters

. What people are getting at here, Is FC is supposed to be a big deal, and the "Big Deal" heroes are basicly not in it (so far)

Batman has had a few dialog boxes before being taken down
Manhunter didnt even get that luxury

Superman delivered that last line of a eulogy and said a couple of words as Clark

Hal says Yes Ma'am forty times and completely acts out of chatacter (Is this the same Hal Sinestro Corps War? DId someone shove wuss pills down his neck?)

John was about to do something cool, but nope he is down too.


All these "Big Deal" heroes being defeated off panel with little set up, is very unsatisfying too by the way.


Meanwhile Sunny Sumo has the first Eight Pages of the book.


woo hoo.

You guys are being waaaaay too hard on FC. It's two issues in! Give it more time to develop. Morrison is a slow story teller, but he usually delivers in the end. And, once the crossovers (Legion of Three Worlds, Rogue's Revenge, etc.) get started, I'm sure things will pick up. Secret Invasion got better once Mighty and New Avengers flushed out the story more. Give FC time.

That being said, I will definitely agree that there is a lot of New Gods stuff in it (too much for my tastes), but I'm not going to stop reading it because of that. This is the big DC event of the year, and will extend way beyond the New Gods. So, bear with the New Gods stuff for now, but know that Supes, Bats and WW will play the biggest roles in the tale.

Anyone else reading GL? The Hal origin stuff is freaking phenomenal. I love how it is tying in Hammond, Black Hand, and the Red and Black Rings to the Hal/Sinestro story.

Also, Superman wasn't too bad this week -- next issue with him vs. Atlas should be good!

C

Really.





(filler)

if you actually remember, in coie the first few issues focused more on characters like blue beetle, firestorm, dawnstar and obsidian even solovar from gorilla city! there was a superman there, but it was earth 2 superman. we didn't really get to the major heroes until issue 3 or 4, and even then, they shared the spotlight with a lot of minor characters, everyone remembers the end of coie, where it was more about superman, earth2 superman, flash and supergirl, but for the first half of the event the majors played just about the same role as they're playing now. we're only 2 issues in and the big three have already had more face time then in coie, and it seems this is what everyone wants to compare final crisis to. you can disagree with me all you want but i have coie right next to me right now, when was the last time you guys read it?

Alright. Some of you dislike or just plain hate the New Gods. Wasn't the first issue a clue that Final Crisis is about New Gods? Also Orion did not die in Death of the New Gods or Countdown. He had a battle with Darkseid in Countdown but did not die himself in either title.

What puzzels me is if you hate and know you won't like anything New God related then why pick Final Crisis up at all? Be like me hating Skrulls and picking up Secret Invasion multiple times and then complaining about how I hate Skrulls.

Alright here is a hint. Final Crisis 3 will have more New Gods in it. And then issue 4 will to. And guess what. Issue 5 will to! A pattern seems to be forming here.

Need to see Superman, Batman, and whoever you think is a big gun? Feel free to pick up JLA or any of their titles. Action, Batman, and Green Lantern I am loving right now. Maybe that is why I have no problems with the other titleless characters in the book. Nick Fury and all kinds of second and third stringers were in the last issue of Secret Invasion while Marvel's big guns are off in the Savage Land wasting time was that terrible to?

OK. I'm really not seeing eye to eye with Sensualninja or DarkCrisis on this point. I realize there are other points you guys don't like about Final Crisis, but this is the one I want to ask you guys about.

Why have you guys assumed that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman were the central focus of the story?

Why is a story bad that does not focus on those characters?

Y'know, I've gotta wonder that myself. When did anyone actually say that Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman were going to be the main protagonists of Final Crisis? In fact, when did they announce that any specific character was going to be featured heavily other than Libra?

its just one of several points I made about why I dont like FC.


and you're taking it out of context, I am not upset that its not focusing on the trinity. Im upset that the major heroes of the DCU are getting their butt kicks off panel and the the major focus is characters no one ever really heard of.


I mean Martian Manhunter is ... DEAD

I mean has the reality of that hit you yet?

he is DEAD

whats worse is they run these adds that are like "where were you when martian manhunter died?"


well i dont know, because it happened off panel.

Huh. I dunno. I seem to recall this big page-panel of Libra stabbing Martian Manhunter with his staff covered in fire...

(As far as "how did he get there?", well, you should have read Salvation Run #7 and the appropriate JLA issue.)

Well, I take your points concerning the Martian Manhunter. If he is really dead, then I'm not fond of how that was handled either.

As far as taking something out of context, that is why I asked you a question in that last post as opposed to making a statement about why I thought you felt a certain way. I wanted to know where you were coming from because it wasn't clear to me.

Batman and Martian Manhunter did get their butts kicked, although they were on-panel.

Orion and John Stewart were the ones who were whomped off-panel, but both of those characters had a story-driven reason to be whomped off-panel. Orion's death (Death of the New Gods notwithstanding) is supposed to be part of the story's mystery. John Stewart was taken out off-panel so that it wouldn't be 100% clear to us at that point (even if we had a strong hunch) who did the deed. When it was later revealed to us through Batman's reading of a palm, so to speak, I suspect that was done in order to allow us to solve the mystery at the same time Batman did. It was a clever way to draw the reader in, I thought.

I'm sure you disagree with me on that last point, but it is pretty apparent the only people who have been beaten up off-panel were done so for a specific story-driven purpose. That may not be your favorite kind of story-telling, and you are welcome to your opinion.

You say that you are not upset about the trinity not being the main focus, but later on you complain that people you've never heard of were the main focus.

You must have some kind of expectation for who ought to be the main characters of this story, since you've mentioned in two posts about the attention spent on characters you've never heard of. What is that expectation?

The entire reason that the big guns so to speak are being taken down so easilly is that they are trying to impress upon us that the rules have changed. Evil won.

The villains want a hero dead? He's dead. No heroic battle, no fuss. He is just dead.