I got his point, and didn't catch a whiff of "smart-guy" pretension. He's right, from what I can see.

Looking back on everything since OMD, I can't say that I forgive or forget it but I can say that I've enjoyed most -- not all, but most -- of the issues that have come out since. I thought the recent issue with Flash Thompson was nice and it was good to see Romita Jr.'s work on Spidey again during the "Anti-Venom" arc. (I did roll my eyes at some of Brock's dialogue, though.)

I guess that's the difference between you and me, and why you love the new direction, whereas I am merely begrudgingly putting up with it.

The difference I refer to is that you can skip a month or two. If I buy a comic, I commit to it. Every issue. Continuity and progression are essential for me to really love a series. Characters have to grow and mature. Stories have to progress. I won't skip a month or two and then just jump back in when they start another story. The new direction spits in the face of continuity, character growth, and logical progression. And as much as I may enjoy a new issue or a new story, I still feel like the 545 issues I read before BND started don't matter to anyone anymore. At this point, if I stop reading, it's going to last until a completely new direction at the least.


You always make so much sense in so few words.

I don't hate. I still think it's worth my money. I love the Slott issues. And the snow story with Bachalo art. And when it's good, getting 3 times as much is great.

Issue-by-issue, it works for me. But when I look at the big picture, I feel like ASM was cancelled after issue 545. And issue 546 was the start of a new series instead. I feel like issue 546 was like Spider-Girl #1, but I hadn't read What If? #105 so I didn't know where they were coming from. I feel like all the BND stuff is one very long "What If?"

Never, ever say this again. Jackstar7 makes no sense. None. Zip. Zilch. Bupkus. Do not encourage Jackstar7.

Jackstar7 is to be treated like he does not know what he's talking about.

Thank you for your compliance.

The Management

The average 10 year old isn't buying Spidey comics at all. He knows Spidey from the movies and the cartoon reruns (maybe).

The biggest conceit of all is to think that returning a character to be more like it was when you were growing up is "preserved Spidey for the next generation." As if You Joe Q, or I know what the next generation will want.

Sugar coat it all you want, this a not Joe Q being altruistic. This is Joe Q thinking that that Spidey he grew up with is the best and trying to force that image onto all readers.

And you can argue about Amazing's sales figures all you want, but be honest; Marvel is not happy that they sell 30,000 less Spiderman books a month now than they did a year ago, no matter if all 3 are called Amazing Spiderman or not.

Tarnish

How was it contrived, forced, or unnatural? I didn't see any of that. What made it fail to click for you?


Good to know that the 10 year old next door can now look up to a superhero who makes deals with the devil.


Can you explain something for me? I recall that Peter was in a club making out with some woman early on in Brand New Day. The first pages of Brand New Day, if I recall this correctly. How does a 10 year old identify with making out in a club? How about Peter having a job? Becoming part of a mob family?

I constantly hear this excuse brought into into the argument about Peter's marriage. The "Unmarried Peter is more identifiable to the kids" argument. Really? What makes marriage any more unidentifiable than when he's dating, or working a job, or many of the other parts of being an adult? That's what Peter is now; he's an adult.

That said, I think kids identify with him anyway. They either don't notice or maybe even ignore the aspects they can't relate to when identifying with Spidey. If the 10 year old doesn't dwell on Peter's marriage (like you said), then Joe Q's decision is terrible, because it doesn't make a difference to the kids, and many of the older fans are repelled by the change.

That's just my two cents.

Finding baby May is the only way I'll start buying Spider-Man comics again.

I love the Spiderman character but I haven't bought his books since the Spider clone BS from 11 or so years ago. It looks like I haven't missed much since. I just upset I was so p!$$ed off that I sold all of my Spidey comics except three back in the Scarlet Spider days.

Oh well, yay X-Men!!! (Not that anything hasn't been screwed up there either)

This argument is going to keep happening for a long time.

Which shows that you weren't reading the Spider-Man comics at the time of the marriage.

MJ and Parkers relationship was nowhere near marriage worthy at the point they were married.
The single and only reason the marriage happened was because Stan Lee was going to marry them in the very under the radar Spider-Man newspaper Strip that had no continuity connection to the marvel U proper.
The marriage issue stunk, to high hell.
And it read like contrived drivel.


As has been stated many many times Peter did not make the deal.
MJ did.
Parker was not ready to make the deal and did not commit to it in OMD.
Read it again.
It was ####, but not the level of #### you and many many more seem to think it was.



Parkers been a 20 something for most of his existence in comics.
And for the most part has been the young adult of the Super hero scene.

Marriage knock the edge of the youthful factor and thats just teh way it goes.


I'm soooo damned sick of all the "characters must progress" ####!

Really?
Seems to me that any time change is applied people freak out!

Look change in the sense of us growing up and applying modern sensibilities to a character is one thing.
But altering the character in ways that undermine the fundamentals of the character and don't preserve em for the next generation are almost always more damaging than anything else.
And look where the marriage got em at Marvel.

A decade and a 1/2 of most writers/editors trying to ignore and write the marriage out and when they finally pull it off the blew it so hard that 1/2 of fandom like you is still pissy about it!

As for the kid next door (Munroe is his name), hey his opinion as a 10 year olds more valid than your assumption of what a 10 year old relates to.

And um Parkers not part of a mob family in any of the issues I picked up so what in the bejeezus are you talking about?

Really though I should have left this discussion, I said my bit and am probably not going to do anything put stir the pot...

I thought that was kind of the point of the issue. It was something they really weren't ready for, but something they did because they loved eachother. And all those years of marriage, the struggles they've had, it was all done for the fact that they loved eachother. And while the technical reasons why it happened might be rubbish, it worked nonetheless.

Yeah, the fact that it was a deal offered to Peter has no bearings to it. The fact that Peter actually convinces MJ to do the deal alongside him, because he's "unable" to do it alone, has nothing to do with it. Face it, while MJ was the one to say the words, she wouldn't have done so if Peter hadn't convinced her. You seemingly have a dislike for MJ, but don't let the your vision get blurred from the facts.



So a character must be young in order to be surprised by responsibilities? Being responsible has been the keystone of what Spider-Man is all about. Removing the marriage and the history that came with it, making Peter seem younger, it's just pointless. Just look at Ben Reilly. The last time they tried to rejuvinate Spider-Man by making him single the results were a disaster. And it wasn't because Ben Reilly wasn't Peter Parker, it was because readers had invested in Spider-Man, his life and marriage, and everything that came with it. Nothing has changed from that time.

Just wanted to "fix" this.

Yeah, The Other, moving to Stark tower, etc. All events where the marriage was playing a rather large part are just examples of "most writers" trying to ignore the marriage.

I'm pretty sure that any 10-year-old kid relates to his marriage just as much as they relate to him dating and going to clubs.

Now hand them an issue of Ultimate Spider-Man, see him go to school, and I'm sure they can relate to that.

Fact is, that the 616-Spider-Man is too old for a 10-year-old to relate through the life he is having. It doesn't matter to the kid if he's married or single. What matters is that he's still fighting bad guys and doing the responsible thing. Both things he could do older and while married.

Oh that's rubbish. It's because of people like you that spandex heroes will never see great quality like Walking Dead, Y or Fables

Then comics may not be for you. Actually, any story might not be for you, as character progression is pretty damn central to an effective story.

Oh, so if I don't agree with you, I haven't read the comics? Everything you've posted is opinion, not fact. That's why I asked for your opinion on the matter. I was respectful about it, but that doesn't mean much to you, it seems.




I read OMD, and while MJ technically makes the deal, she tells Peter she's doing it so he won't have to. Implying that he was going to make that deal if she didn't.

OMD really was a poor story. There are many ways to try to break up MJ and Peter, but this is one of the most contrived methods ever; that Peter and MJ would even consider making a deal with the devil is out of character and absurd.




You haven't explained how Peter making out with women at a club preserves him for the next generation more than a marriage does.

And now anyone who disagrees with you is "pissy." My post was just meant to point out the flaw in the "Make Peter identifiable to the kids" argument." Sorry that you don't like seeing opposing opinions. Attacking my logic is more effective than attacking me.

But from what you posted, it sounds like Munroe was apathetic towards the marriage. If that's the case, then removing the marriage doesn't help Munroe, it only alientates some of the older fans. None of what I posted is assumption, it's just logic based off of what you posted, or on my own experiences as a child identifying with Spider-man.

After Peter saves the children of the Maggia, one female member declares him family. She says that the Maggia is in his debt forever. I'm not saying that Peter is some crime lord now, but he's considered part of a mob family. How does a child relate to that?

I really did want your view on the Peter/MJ marriage, so I'm glad you posted that.


I just want to point out that I don't hate Amazing Spider-Man stuff, as the stories are decent for me. I just dislike the principle that they are founded on. And some of the villains are unimpressive (Menace especially), which hurts my enjoyment a bit since I love villains. I did like New Ways to Die.

You see, this is the problem. Fans don't quit very easily and Marvel knew this. If Marvel is to be made to understand the mistake that was One More Day / Brand New Day, they need to get hurt in their pockets.

I stopped collecting shortly after BND started. I just could not get into the character. I felt like reading a "fake" story. And the most insulting part was Marvel only publishing the "raving positive vibes" of fan letters rather than anything that could even remotely be construed as constructive feedback (namely, "If I see Joe Quesada on the street, I'll make him eat my s**t, then s**t out my s**t, then eat his s**t which is made my s**t which I made him eat).