I completely understand that some people will agree, and some will disagree on the Brubaker/Capt America run. I almost didn't bother - here's why:

1. I only got 're-interested' when I heard rumor of Cap being killed off, and by then it was well into the run (maybe mid to late teens)

2. I heard that Bucky had come back from the dead

3. I heard that Bucky was ret-conned to be a brainwashed assassin

I love change, and the 'ballsiness' it would take to tackle these things, but this sounded bad.

I started reading some reviews online, anticipating how awful it would be.

Every reviewer liked it.

Now - every reviewer can like whatever they want - but I was a little surprised. I had to admit, the previews I had seen had good art. That alone would make me not feel taken for picking up an issue or two - so I did.

I also liked it.

I started picking up past issues, and added it to my 'pull list'. For the reasons I listed in my earlier post, this comic won me over the way no vacuous 'event' could.

With the childish, wasteful, random Loeb-ization of the Ultimate U, and the (IMO) poorly thought out 'Secret Invasion' (poorly thought out 'creatively', MASTERFULLY thought out financially), I recently dropped every Marvel title from my pull list, except Captain America and Immortal Iron Fist.

So why the (boring, self-absorbed ) long post? I had almost decided the title rotted, based on the 'Cap dies' and 'Bucky lives' and 'Bucky's a killer' blurbs I'd heard. Reading it changed everything (for me). Everyone who dislikes it may very well have read it... but if you haven't, you should try it - it may also win you over.

Completely agree with you fenway, I think that Brubaker has taken tropes and turned them into a FANTASTIC book. I mean, we've had giant nazi robots, for crying out loud, but it is simply a great read each and every month. I love Captain America and I think it is the best, most consistent book Marvel puts out.

Shrug, Brubaker single handedly got me to drop every Marvel title by killing Rogers off.

I stuck with some for a while (Annihlation and the following Nova series were great), but the heart is just gone out of Marvel.

It's like, sure icing is great and all, but you need the cake to go with it or what's the point.

With Bruce Wayne gone from being Batman, and All-Star Superman being over. I'm just reading Indy now. DC, like Marvel, has just taken the fun out of it and gone in for change for no reason.

For some characters only one person can every truly fill their shoes. Only Peter Park can be Spider-man, only Bruce Wayne can really be Batman, only Clark Kent can really be Superman, and only Steve Rogers can really be Captain America.

I'm in total agreement here. Batman getting killed off seems to me to be DC copying Caps successful demise (which itself felt a lot like Supe's death) and the Blackest Night storyline seems to be a clone of Marvel Zombies, but taken seriously instead of done for laughs.

Also, Dc has been the most brutally graphic when it comes to violence recently. It started with Black Adam, and now if you pick up a title with Superboy prime in it, you can be sure to see someone reduced to red mist before you get to the back cover.

Ditko's Spider-Man comics are all really great.

I respect what you're saying, and also you taking the time to articulate it - oh well...

I wonder if we have any common ground in indie comics?

Hellboy?
BPRD?
Conan (Dark Horse)?
Umbrella Academy?
Invincible?
Walking Dead?

For all my Captain America flag-waving (...and I'm CANADIAN!! Go figure) I actually am enjoying the above runs more than anything from the big two. (..although the Busiek/Nord run on Conan was superior to now)

Hellboy and BPRD are the BEST books I'm reading right now. SO much fun. Walking Dead is another favorite of mine.

For one thing, the Super Soldier Serum played a part in Cap surviving, Bucky's survival made no sense at all, without they serum he would have been dead before they found him.

1. Wally West was already an established character who, technically, only needed to change his costume.
2. Barry died heroically whereas Cap's death was meaningless. To be honest, if Cap were to die at the end of CW, I would have prefered him to be beating Tony down and then have Tony panic and blast his head off with a repulsor blast. It probably would have played better into SI as well. Cap's death also made no sense where Redd Skull is concerned. Red Skull would have wanted Cap to know he was going to die and to know that he got to his friends. He would have demoralized him as much as possible. There was no reveal, Cap had no idea that he was betrayed, removing that one final bit of agony the Red Skull would have inflicted on him.
3. Wally isn't a murdering psychopath.
4. Bucky just doesn't have the skills to truly be Captain America.

Of course, these are just my opinion.

I definitely dig Conan, and have also enjoyed the Solomon Kane mini series so far (wish it were going to be a regular title).

Atomic Robo is well worth checking out if you like Hellboy or BPRD. It's similar, but more commedic with a robot as the protaganist.

Well I could believe Bucky survival more than a serum someone took!

The first Ultimates, Supreme Power by J. Michael Straczynski, Astonishing X-Men by Whedon and Cassaday (when they brought back Colossus), Wolverine Volume 1 (until issue 60-ish. My all-time favorite issues are #s 25 and 34. This was back when Wolverine was still mysteriously cool and called LOGAN or Patch, instead of James friggin' Howlett), Wolverine: Origins (when we find out that Wolverine's name is James friggin' Howlett. Thought it was gonna suck, but it was well-written. Still ruined the character, though, IMO,) and the SINESTRO CORPS WAR!!!

I think Johns is a waaaaaaay better storyteller than Grant Morrison. I mean, Morrison has really cool ideas and concepts (I liked his run on the New X-Men, but not all of it (especially when he revealed that Xorn was Magneto, who turned out, later on when another writer took over, to not be Magneto at all. Wha?). I also liked his run on JLA (I liked the magnificent 7 being the only active members of the JLA. With so many members of the JLA now, what makes them different from JSA or the X-Men?). However, sometimes some his stories and storytelling are a bit off. I also don't like the fact that I have to be sitting right by a computer whenever I read one of his books so I can "google" whatever obscure character he uses. Well, whatever.

And yeah, I almost forgot about the early 90's X-Factor (with Havok, Polaris, Multiple Man, Wolfsbane, Quicksilver, Strong Guy, and Val Cooper) has always been one of my favorites, too. I really loved the idea of "funny X-Men".

Bucky was also an established character that has been around longer than Wally West.

We were not supposed to like Cap's dying. Killing Cap off the way he did gave readers another reason to hate the Red Skull and Dr. Faustus.

Neither is Bucky...not at heart. He was used as a tool by the Russians.

...and Wally, according to many, never had the skills to be the Flash.


What it comes down to is knowing that Bucky will not be Cap forever and Steve will not be dead forever.

I'm dissapointed that after all this convo nobody has mentioned the Ostrander/Mandrake runs on The Spectre or Martian Manhunter.

Also, I'd love to see the panel where Bucky dies. It doesn't exist.

No body, no death.

Morrison/Quitely on anything they've done.