I wasn't even aware of that ruling but it is a great example of a counter intuitive ruling. I don't understand how anyone could come to the ruling...

When you outwit something you choose a power on the characters dial and it doesn't work and can't be used (I know this is simpler than it is with the counter/ignore/etc wording differences...but to provide an example...). If a player chooses a character that has Invulnerability you can't choose to outwit his toughness can you? So why would this special powers second part (which states that the character is still using outwit which we have looked at above) do anything other than allow the character to choose each power that is showing in the current slot for outwitting. As such is a character is hit and the powers change, they would no longer be outwitted because they are not the powers chosen. If this turns off each and every power on the dial showing or not showing, then it isn't outwit and should not be indentified as such.

Let's certainly hope that one day someone gets to make rulings on Squirrel Girl's dial...Ch'p is dying for a friend...

Who said anything about me posting for these guys. The efficiency being introduced is that instead of having to wait for me, if one of the deputies say something, you can take it to the bank.

I don't know which game designers you've talked to. The ones I've worked with have all known the rules for the game. I will grant that the ability to call up some minutiae related to a specific ruling questions is not necessarily a game designer's strength, but I don't know that it should be. Rather, I think it's more important that they have people to bring that information together so they can make a clear judgement call on how things should be.

This is getting a bit outside the realm of this thread, but here goes:

No, you can't. As you pointed out, Outwit specifies that you need to counter a power possessed by the character. And if that power isn't currently showing in the dial windown, you technically have no way of knowing what powers a character might possess (yeah, I know people memorize dials all the time, but from a rules perspective, future powers, or even if the character has anymore clicks of life left, are essentially unknown).


Because it states that all powers are coutered. Not "all powers currently showing on the dial" but "all powers". That's pretty all inclusive: click the dial, and the powers may change, but do you still see powers (any at all) on the dial? Well, then they are part of that "all powers" description and they are countered.

You're right -- about half are just average boring-as-all-get-out bad.

I stand corrected.

And you can bet that for that one time out of a thousand that they are mistaken, they are supporting their opinion with evidence as to why it should work the way that they say. I can't think of anyone more worthy than these three.

Correct - that is why it is counterintuitive, Outwit specifies that you need to counter a power possessed by the character, the power says you can use it normally (counter 1 power) or counter all powers "possessed by a character" which is specifically part of the rule for outwit that comes printed on the high quality card stock that is included in my starter and any person who doesn't make their way to this site is going to use to figure out how these figures work.

Again - I am stating that this all comes down to interpretation and opinions, there is no way in any possible attempt I would have come to that conclusion based on the rules for this game, but it is the official ruling that was handed down by whomever and as such it is the way it works...for some reason from Norm's last post I don't think that he understand's why people expect him as the RA to post. Norm's opinion is what we all go by, whether it is right or wrong, fair or unfair, smart or stupid, it is the FINAL word on a question.

While I have stated earlier that all three folks have opinions that are right on in most cases and I agree with a lot of them, people expect the RA to make rulings. I show up on Sunday and see that normalview has expressed an opinion and I as a judge base a call the same day on that opinion that costs someone their Thor, The Reigning prize after it is ruled on Tuesday that Norm overrulled this opinion they are not going to happy with me that's for sure (discussion of his person's sportmanship asside of course)...

I think that having the official FAQs on the WK website was always the way to go, after the date of the FAQ, if the question was answered, you went with what was in the FAQ, up until the official ruling was in place, it was the judge's discretion or if 2 players disagreed you could just flip a coin and keep on playing...I also know that we all have lives and that Norm isn't a paid employee that can support his family on the salary of an RA. If something requires an official ruling, give us a dated document. If we are looking to provide some folks that can answer questions go ahead and make it official and let it be so!!

How about this then: why not give this new system a try and see if it works?


Your points are not without merit, but they are a decidely negative spin on something that has only officially started this morning. Why automatically assume the worst? Especially since we (and I mean Norm and the three of us) have already discussed methods of avoiding the potential pitfalls you mentioned.

Just give us some time, please, before you decide this is not going to work.

I disagree that this was a "counterintuitive" rules call. Firstly, Joker's power is not Outwit, it is "Joker Makes the Rules". Secondly, it is a special power that allows for a different effect than Outwit does normally, as specified by it's description.

You can argue that it could be confusing from an interpretational standpoint, but I fail to see how the ruling was "counterintuitive" in any way.

Emphasis mine; In all fairness, that would appear to be a failing on the part of your rules knowledge as much as anything else.

I fail to see the problem. You're the Judge, you make the calls in your events based on your Rules knowledge. That's it.

If the ruling changes after that, how can you be held accountable in any way? IMHO, this is no different than making any other call: there exists the possibility that it will be the wrong one.

Like any other tournament organizer, you (and by extension, your players) are just going to have to be okay with the possibility that you might get something wrong in hindsight. In fact, odds are you will.

Thinking beyond that just paralyzes folk and is just plain unnecessary.

Norm's private life aside, it seems official enough when you have the RA deputizing three folk who have a proven track record of "getting it right". What more do you want? A plaque?

As for the rest, Norm has already acknowledged the need for collecting all of the different questions, answers, errata, etc...things take time.

Badges. They need badges.














Yes I know it's a set up line....

Hmmmm....now I want a badge too.

I don't have a choice about giving it a try so that is the reality of the thing.

I don't believe that I am expressing any negativity, I am trying to be an objective outside viewer and offer everyone an opportunity to potentially avoid pitfalls that might not have been discussed. If you try to build a bridge but don't show up with the bolts to hold it together it is going to fall apart. Just because I am offering a dissenting opinion, it shouldn't be interpreted as negative...

As stated, I would like to see an official document like what we have had in the past, that worked pretty well in my opinion (though I am sure some folks disagree with that as well...)...just like I am sure a lot of people would have been happier with Print and Play if there had been an easy way to print the cards directly from Wizkids website...constructive criticism is a good thing!!

Ah, advocatus diaboli, the rallying call of every negative nancy.

LOL

You are waaaaaaay too late, my friend:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...es#post4459761

And we will have them. The player's guide isn't going anywhere (at least, I haven't been told otherwise).

PHHFFFFT! You think I got time to read all of your posts? What do you think you are a rules deputy or something?



Tarnish