I've never agreed to send first when I was sending very valuable figures, with the exception of a trade with Hair10, and that was only because if he screwed me, the repurcussions to his good name would be worse than it would be for mine. Trader rating be damned. If they can't agree to at least simul-send (in a trade involving figures of actual risk), then I'm sure someone else will offer me the trade and will agree to my terms.

An E-2 Superman is one of those figures.

In any event, I'm sorry this happened to you. Certainly with that figure. If you get it back I have a KC GL for trade.

I grant you that he did send a package to my zip code but what is in it and where it went I do not know. DO YOU?
So is it my fault his package was lost?

If 1 side got the package and the other side didn't, how exactly can you proof what is in the missing package?

Well, I guess I have to be a bad trader in your eyes for now until the Mods get this resolved

So say two people want to trade at a local comic store. They each bring their figures, and they can each see that they brought their figures, but they hold off on trading until the tournament they're playing in is over. During the tournament, trader 1 misplaces his figure and can't find it. It appears to have been stolen by a third party. According to your logic, the trader 2 has to give up his figure since the trader 1 brought the figure and showed intent to trade. Trader 2 has to give away a figure for free.

That's inane.

I think the usefulness of this thread may be about up. Both parties have stated their experience in public; I don't see much use in raking over everything more now. I feel that the matter should be left in the hands of our moderators to resolve from this point.

That's a completely different situation and therefore not worth talking about!
Let's say you and I traded. We simulsend.
You receive your very valuable fig. The one you sent gets lost, although you have a confirmed delivery receipt. Will you keep the figure you received or will you send it back? Or vice versa...if I got it and you nothing. Would you want me to send it back?

So you are saying he probably sent you an old sock or something knowing that it would definitely get lost???
When he sent you a box with delivery confirmation we can assume he did send the figure. What sense would it make to send an empty box in a deal where you send first?!?!?
Complete nonsense, really!!!!

The problem with your hypothetical situation is that this wasn't a simulsend case.
This was a low trader sends first.
Which really isn't terribly unreasonable seeing single digit trade can sometimes be worrying.

I've been burnt to in my fair share of trades. It's an unfortunate side effect of an honors system trading forum.

I'm sorry the OP lost a chase in the situation, however the trading forum on HCR really is a feature and not something that the staff or moderators or anyone can truly enforce. The only way that would be possible is if a moderator was the designated middle man for all trades.. But then i'm sure that would get really messy, and frankly I doubt anyone would want to pay twice for shipping..

I've traded with Nogo a few times.. He's a great trader, he wouldn't have earned so many positive feedback if that wasn't true.

now the post office on the other hand.. They deliver things wrong all the time. I constantly get mail for people 3 blocks away from my house (just happen to have the same street number, but an entirely different street).
Fortuantely for them I'm nice enough to bring the stuff over for them.. hopefully should my stuff get delivered there they are nice enough to bring it my way.

I'm not 100% familiar with signature confirmation, but is the confirmation of the address pre-printed on the green card or is that something that the person signing fills out?

I can agree with you.. But then on the other hand there's all kinds of terrible liars out there on the net that you just can't judge (no offense OP, I don't know you, never traded with you and certainly am not calling you a liar, just playing devils advocate).
For all you know someone COULD have sent a sock to some address out there hoping that in such situation the person they traded with will say, "well it's not your fault I'll send your stuff along." I certainly can't vouch for every person who sends a package.. So yeah.. maybe they did.

Further, It seems nogo is being more than reasonable on trying to track this package down. I too would give up after I received some negative feedback.. Why bother??

Perhaps the OP DID call the post office and such.. But frankly the rash posts and such lead me to believe that he's a bit quick to jump at something. I personally would love to see the PM's between him in Nogo just to get a better understanding. Preferably from both of them to see that nobody is changing any text or anything to get rid of something that I shouldn't see or whatever.

But again.. I'm REALLY sorry this happened to you OP. It seriously could be a mailing issue with a dishonest person which the package was delivered.. But what exactly are you hoping for HCR to do about it? That's what I would like to know..

A snipet from the rules thread:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266212
3.1 Our site acts as a venue to allow anyone to offer and trade just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of trading formats. We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction.

What I do not understand DemonRS, is that he's being punished for doing nothing wrong. He did anything he could do to provide a save delivery. Box and Delivery confirmation. Still he's not getting anything because they say he probably sent an empty box.
I thought in the States you are innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it the other way around in that case?
Let me give you another example. Let's say I send first in a deal, where I decide to have you as a neutral middle-man. You receive the figure and forward it with dc. It get's lost in the same way as in Mongoose's case.
Is it really ok that the other guy would say since it got lost because the Postal Service screwed up he's not going to send his part?

Maybe I'm completely off here...but if someone sends me a figure with dc and all and it get's lost in the mail ...it's bad for me, yet I'd still send my part of the deal since my trading partner did nothing wrong.
Am I wrong here?

Yes that's the right thing to do.. However, should I have been put in a similar situation I'd certainly be going to the post office and getting it all checked out first. The right thing is NOT leaving negative feedback in the process of trying to figure out where the package is. As that pretty well is going to make the individual stop trying. It would certainly make me stop trying.

The problem with this situation (and I understand why one side is upset at not receiving anything, and I understand why the other side would NOT WANT TO SEND UNTIL THEY VERIFY) is that the trade in question is a fairly high dollar trade. And because the chase is such a high cost single piece, the person receiving the chase would want to make sure they're getting the chase they're willing to trade X number of pieces in order to get.

Similarly it's easy to feel scammed if you're the person sending said high dollar piece and something happened with the post office and it got messed up. I certainly would be doing my best to work it out and figure out what happened at the post office before coming on a public sight and basically slandering the individual.. Moreso since the recipient has been extraordinarily successful at proving they are a good trader.

Like I said, I'd really love to see the signature confirmation card.

You have permission to see my PMs on this issue if you want to see them. The only thing is not all correspondence were done on PM. The part about me tracking it down going knocking on doors were done on e-mail. After Mongoose stopped replying to my e-mails and left me feedback, I went back and tried the PMs again

Additionally, I'd like to point out Dr. M, that you're right.. Why would someone who's supposed to send first send an empty box.. I completely agree. OR why would they intentionally send to the wrong address..

It doesn't make sense.. You're right..
But then you've got someone with 433+ feedback.. It doesn't make sense for them to suddenly be a scammer either.
Which is why It seems this is an issue that needs to be worked out with the post office more than anything as it seems both individuals are honest with their half of the situation. Again something I wouldn't bother helping with should I have received negative feedback.

Didn't say he was a scammer or a cheater or someone who rips people off. Nobody with his reputation starts inventing stories about a deal. I 100% believe him that the figure never arrived. THAT, however is NOT Mongoose's fault and he's the one losing in this deal. I was merely pointing out that someone who doesn't send his part of a deal although the other guy DID send his part of the deal is a bad trader in my books. A good trader would follow through with the deal...I would anyways.

I wholeheartedly agree with you though that Mongoose did go a little overboard a little quickly on the whole deal.

If NoGoCat didn't get the 1st part of the deal, I'm not really sure what the problem is. I wouldn't send out my end of a deal if I didn't get what I was promised! This is silly. If the post office screwed the OP then, that needs to be addressed. If NoGoCat has helped in this, he's already gone above and beyond from where I stand.

Dr. M, it looks like you're ignoring my scenario because it emphasizes how silly your trader expectations are. Your own scenario is too different to be relevant (simulsend, one trader actually received his item, the issue is whether to return an item, not to send one of your own out), whereas my scenario is nearly identical to the actual issue (only difference being mail vs. in-person trading). Sounds like you wouldn't stick to your principles if you were trading face-to-face and an identical situation arose.

I say NoGoCat is going above and beyond in trying to help Mongoose after the latter's reaction, and while I understand Mongoose's frustration, I think he overreacted with the negative itrader feedback.