The symbol isn't necessary (though it is a helpful reminder):

TRAIT ABILITIES
Traits are abilities, powers, effects, or other aspects of a character that it possesses at all times, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during a game. Trait abilities are indicated by a star symbol on a character’s base. Traits are defined on a character card next to thesymbol in the white circle at the beginning of a character card. All traits are non-optional and can’t be countered.

A trait is always possessed by the character, symbol or not.

Wanna argue this some more?

Nope, that satisfied my concern.

A similar question, can I assign Camo to a character with the Skrull TA and use camo whether or not Shape Change is showing on the dial
Current PG wording of Skrull TA:
This character can use Shape Change, but only
succeeds on a roll of 6. Using Shape Change in this
way does not prevent the character from using Shape
Change through another game effect.

all the talk about traits leads me to believe it will work.
thanks

That's fine.

Just remember that the Skrulls TA didn't let you use Shape Change before, so some people might object to you using it as a prereq for Camouflage. I suggest printing out the TA page from the PG, so that you can show it has changed to players that might not be aware of it.

I don't want to resurrect a dead discussion here, but I think we may need a clarification on player's guide for the following case:

As it's quoted many times before in this thread, forgive me for rephrasing it once again:

Player's Guide 1-1
The first paragraph of using feats reads:''To use a feat, the prerequisites must be present on the character's combat dial all the time that the player gives the character an action or otherwise uses the feat''

I totally agree that possessing a power would act as if the power itself is on the combat dial. Have no problem with the logic here, so I understand powers acquired through ICwO and Traits can be used when activating feats, and in case of traits you may use them as prerequisites.

My main question comes when using team abilities (or printed combat symbols) as prerequisites for feats, such as Skrulls TA and Camouflage feat.

From Heroclix Rulebook Page 2:

Heroclix is played using collectible miniature figures standing on a base with a rotating combat dial inside. Together, the figure, base and dial are called a character.

From this I deduce combat dial and base are two separate terms.

Heroclix Rulebook Glossary - Page 23:
Team Abilities: Special abilities that a character possesses due to its membership in a group as indicated by a team symbol printed on the character's base

Although team symbol lets you possess the team ability, this doen't mean that the character also possesses the power granted by the ability itself. Character can only use it like Stealth for Bat-Ally, or Shapechange by Skrull TAs.

In this case, through this I reach the conclusion that since the power isn't possessed, and the symbol (whether it be team symbol or combat symbol) granting the use of power isn't printed on the dial, but on the base; through Player's Guide clarification, I deduce that the character can't be assigned the feat.

I know and heartfully agree with the rulings letting use of powers through combat symbols or team abilities as prerequisites for feats. I think that is also how it should be; however rulebook defines base and dial as two separate things.

Both rulebook and Player's Guide state one can be assigned or use a feat on one of the following conditions:

1) The prerequisites must be present on the character's combat dial all the time.
2) Even if the prerequisite isn't shown on dial, it must be possessed somehow.
3) The power can be used through a special power (which is still printed on the dial anyway).

With the current wording, powers used through TA and combat symbols doesn't meet any of the above criterias.

This discussion is purely semantics. As I said I am not opposing the current ruling, I am just asking your opinion if appropriate sections in Player's Guide should be reworded for clarification. Thanks for reading.

This means that with the current rules no feat that uses an ability or a symbol or point cost as a prereq can be used.

That's a major bug in the rules there.

Why does it not meet criterion #2?

Let me give an example. Let's say Character A has Skrulls TA, but it doesn't have Shape Change as a standard or named power. For the sake of example let's also say it doesn't have a trait or special power that lets it use Shape Change.

Skrulls TA from Player's Guide:
This character can use Shape Change, but only succeeds on a roll of 6. Using Shape Change in this way does not prevent the character from using Shape Change through another game effect.

From this it looks like Character A possesses Skrulls TA, but it doesn't possess Shape Change Power, it can only use it. For this reason I think it doesn't meet criterion #2.

I hope I'm not derailing the thread here but the change to the Skrulls TA is quite interesting, especially for wildcards. Would the following scenario be legal:

Character A and B are part of the same force. Character A has Skrulls TA and B is a wildcard. Character B has got Shape Change and has been assigned Camouflage but Shape Change does not currently show on its dial. Can B copy Skrulls TA to activate Camouflage?

According to my understanding, the prerequisite for characters to assign and use feats through team abilities is they should possess the team ability.

From Rulebook Page 16:
Although wild cards can use team abilities, they do not possess the copied team ability nor do they possess the team symbol.

In your example character B can be assigned camouflage as you mentioned since it possesses Shape Change power somewhere on its dial. However it shouldn't be able to use Camouflage by using Skrulls TA through wild carding it. Only time it can use Camouflage would be when Shape Change is showing on its dial.

That makes sense, thanks for weighing in At least a couple skrulls will become better with this change in Golden Age, though. Not being able to target Spider-Woman, Skrull Yellowjacket or Super-Skrull: Iluminati at range will make them quite a bit nastier.

By that argument, most special powers couldn't be used as prerequistes. very rarely do special powers allow a character to possess a standard power; instead they usually just allow the use of that power.


However, special powers that allow the use of a standard power do indeed count as prerequisites for the feat.

From page 19:

In order to be assigned a feat, the character must be able to use the prequisite power or ability. If the character uses the prerequisite power through a power or ability that is not a standard or named power, the prerequisite power must be named by the game effect specifically. A special power that allows a character to use “any standard power” does not satistfy the prerequisites for a feat. The character does not need to possess the prerequisites on the first click of its dial to be assigned the feat, only to use it (see below).


Notice that it also says "ability", meaning combat abilities (like Indomitable and the Willpower it allows the character to use), team abilities (like Skrulls and its Shape Change it allows the characters to use), and traits (like Venom's Leap/Climb) can all be used as prerequites.

Possession doesn't have anything to do with it.

The character B already meets the prerequisites for assigning the feat during force construction (he said that B had Shape Change on some other part of its dial), so it is fine to place Camo on the character.

Then, once the game begins, it is using an ability (its wild card TA) to use the Shape Change power via copying the Skrull TA (see my post above).

B can indeed use Camo when copying Skrulls.

Just out of curiosity to expand this:

Jason Blood can be asigned Force Field. Ha has ESD and no power that reduces damage.


Etrigan can be asigned Shellhead b/c he has toughness. Jason Blood can also be assigned Shellhead b/c the ruling on Alter egos


JB can be assigned both Shellhead and Force Field. He has ESD allowing him to use Toughness. He can use Toughness so does he get to use Shell head?