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But, isn't charge a problem? You need an action to activate charge. Why do you get to ignore knockback, if you haven't given your character an action?
CHARGE Give this character a power action; halve its speed value for the action. Move this character up to its speed value and then it may be given a close combat action as a free action. A character using this power ignores knock back.
that is a very good point! if charge is on your dial you possess it , you are not using it, only on your turn you are using this power when you activate it, so by the wording you suffer knockback if applicaple!
no, because it is up to your speed value not to exceed your speed value, and your question cases less confusion than the current one......
You probably just need to educate the folks at your venue. I suggest printing out the doc that Tarnish put together in the link and distribute it to those confused folks. Y'all fairly new to the game?
no, because it is up to your speed value not to exceed your speed value, and your question cases less confusion than the current one......
But you didnt say that, thus my confusion. All you said was "When you do"....which leads to the ambiguity...."When you do WHAT"?
I will give you a chance to rephrase with perfect clarity, but I will warn you this is a fool's errand.
"A Jester unemployed is nobody's fool." - The Court Jester "And so he says, I don't like the cut of your jib, and I go, I says it's the only jib I got, baby!
that is a very good point! if charge is on your dial you possess it , you are not using it, only on your turn you are using this power when you activate it, so by the wording you suffer knockback if applicaple!
The answer to the question is that you can USE the power without giving an action. This is also explained in the rulebook. Notice that this is how Probability Control works.
"A Jester unemployed is nobody's fool." - The Court Jester "And so he says, I don't like the cut of your jib, and I go, I says it's the only jib I got, baby!
But you didnt say that, thus my confusion. All you said was "If you do"....which leads to the ambiguity...."If you do WHAT"?
I will give you a chance to rephrase with perfect clarity, but I will warn you this is a fool's errand.
i whole heartedly agree that rephrasing it again and again is a fools errand! but if you word one power to be structured to allow the following phrase of the power to as a requirement to get all the benifit, then you should do them all!
i whole heartedly agree that rephrasing it again and again is a fools errand! but if you word one power to be structured to allow the following phrase of the power to as a requirement to get all the benifit, then you should do them all!
There is a template that WK for the most part follows. If you spend some time understanding the template, you will learn it and for the most part wont be confused as often.
It may not flow with the way you are currently accustomed to reading rules. But most people who have played HeroClix for awhile see L/C and Charge as two powers that follow the standard WK HeroClix Power Templating.
Trust me, there are SPs that are far more ambiguosly worded.
"A Jester unemployed is nobody's fool." - The Court Jester "And so he says, I don't like the cut of your jib, and I go, I says it's the only jib I got, baby!
no, not at all, i think that they shouldnt word it open to interperatation,
and i am saying that the structure of running shot and leap climb are different!
leap climb
Give this character a move action and move it up to its speed value. It automatically breaks away, may move through squares adjacent to and occupied by opposing figures, and ignores the effects of hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement. When you give this character a close combat action, it may target a character regardless of the target’s elevation.
or should it simbly be
Give this character a move action and move it up to its speed value. when you do It automatically breaks away, may move through squares adjacent to and occupied by opposing figures, and ignores the effects of hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement. When you give this character a close combat action, it may target a character regardless of the target’s elevation.
I have to say you have to read the core rules. Just because it's not stated in the power description, doesn't mean that there is room for interpretation. If the core rules indicates that you can do either A or B, then the power description doesn't need any more wording.
There was a lot of confusion when the new PAC came out because of how Perplex is worded. It used to be:
Fantastic Four PAC PERPLEX Once during your turn, give this character a free action to modify by +1 or –1 any combat value of a target character until the beginning of your next turn. A character using this power must be within 10 squares of the target and have a clear line of fire to the target, including itself. If a target character is damaged or healed, the effect of Perplex on that character ends immediately.
It now reads: 2011 PAC PERPLEX Give this character a free action to modify by +1 or –1 any combat value of a target character until the beginning of your next turn. A character using this power must be within 10 squares and line of fire to the target. If a target character is damaged or healed, the effect of Perplex on that character ends immediately.
As you can see, the new PAC removes the wording "including itself". Many people thought that this now prevented characters from targeting themselves. However, the additional words are not necessary because, the Core Rules states this from the beginning:
From Page 6 The two squares of a line of fire can be the same square, so a character can draw a line of fire to itself or to the square it occupies. This is still a line of fire and would be subject to any conditions that would exist if they were separate squares.
The core rules states you can do target the same square so, "including itself" is not necessary. The "when you do" is redundant and so is not needed to differentiate between the interactions of Leap/Climb and Charge/Running Shot. L/C and Charge/RS are 2 different powers that activate when you use a move action or a power action. A move action grants you a specific action:
MOVE ACTIONS
A character given a move action can move up to its speed value in squares across the map. A character might have a special speed ability (see Part 3, p. 16) that affects how it can move. A character does not
have to move its full speed value, and it can choose to move 0 squares. Characters can move diagonally, as shown in Figure 9.
POWER ACTIONS
A power action is an action given to a character that allows it to use a game effect that requires a power action to activate.
Such as Charge and Running Shot.
You've been told so many times now how things are but unfortunately, I don't see how your interpretation leaves anything open for discussion. You are welcome to ask questions but please take a moment and wrap your head around the core rules.
I have to say you have to read the core rules. Just because it's not stated in the power description, doesn't mean that there is room for interpretation. If the core rules indicates that you can do either A or B, then the power description doesn't need any more wording.
There was a lot of confusion when the new PAC came out because of how Perplex is worded. It used to be:
Fantastic Four PAC PERPLEX Once during your turn, give this character a free action to modify by +1 or –1 any combat value of a target character until the beginning of your next turn. A character using this power must be within 10 squares of the target and have a clear line of fire to the target, including itself. If a target character is damaged or healed, the effect of Perplex on that character ends immediately.
It now reads: 2011 PAC PERPLEX Give this character a free action to modify by +1 or –1 any combat value of a target character until the beginning of your next turn. A character using this power must be within 10 squares and line of fire to the target. If a target character is damaged or healed, the effect of Perplex on that character ends immediately.
As you can see, the new PAC removes the wording "including itself". Many people thought that this now prevented characters from targeting themselves. However, the additional words are not necessary because, the Core Rules states this from the beginning:
From Page 6 The two squares of a line of fire can be the same square, so a character can draw a line of fire to itself or to the square it occupies. This is still a line of fire and would be subject to any conditions that would exist if they were separate squares.
The core rules states you can do target the same square so, "including itself" is not necessary. The "when you do" is redundant and so is not needed to differentiate between the interactions of Leap/Climb and Charge/Running Shot. L/C and Charge/RS are 2 different powers that activate when you use a move action or a power action. A move action grants you a specific action:
MOVE ACTIONS
A character given a move action can move up to its speed value in squares across the map. A character might have a special speed ability (see Part 3, p. 16) that affects how it can move. A character does not
have to move its full speed value, and it can choose to move 0 squares. Characters can move diagonally, as shown in Figure 9.
POWER ACTIONS
A power action is an action given to a character that allows it to use a game effect that requires a power action to activate.
Such as Charge and Running Shot.
You've been told so many times now how things are but unfortunately, I don't see how your interpretation leaves anything open for discussion. You are welcome to ask questions but please take a moment and wrap your head around the core rules.
Thanks!
i dont think you or most who have responded understand, i do not have a problem understanding the rules nor do i "misinterperate" the interactions of powers... i simply have a problem with the way some powers are worded,
i. e.
charge
Give this character a power action; halve its speed value for the action. Move this character up to its speed value and then it may be given a close combat action as a free action. A character using this power ignores knock back.
i get it anything that gives them a power action or a move action cannot ne used in combination..... however
leap climb is less definitive
Give this character a move action and move it up to its speed value. It automatically breaks away, may move through squares adjacent to and occupied by opposing figures, and ignores the effects of hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement. When you give this character a close combat action, it may target a character regardless of the target’s elevation.
when at first glance you will see that the sentence uses terms like it and continues to infer that seperately the figure ignores stuff......
i dont think you or most who have responded understand, i do not have a problem understanding the rules nor do i "misinterperate" the interactions of powers... i simply have a problem with the way some powers are worded,
i. e.
charge
Give this character a power action; halve its speed value for the action. Move this character up to its speed value and then it may be given a close combat action as a free action. A character using this power ignores knock back.
i get it anything that gives them a power action or a move action cannot ne used in combination..... however
leap climb is less definitive
Give this character a move action and move it up to its speed value. It automatically breaks away, may move through squares adjacent to and occupied by opposing figures, and ignores the effects of hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement. When you give this character a close combat action, it may target a character regardless of the target’s elevation.
when at first glance you will see that the sentence uses terms like it and continues to infer that seperately the figure ignores stuff......
Just curious but how come the only words you capitalize are the words "Give", "Move", and "It"...is that an e.e.cummings thing or a Freudian thing?
"A Jester unemployed is nobody's fool." - The Court Jester "And so he says, I don't like the cut of your jib, and I go, I says it's the only jib I got, baby!