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Again though, this can be accomplished by a special power that adds willpower with somthing else. For instance:
Spidey is known to come back from beatings and fight on for the win. So Willpower combined with another power like combat reflexes is a great way to represent this. By doing this on say his last 3 clix you get a feel of a spider-man who has taken a beating and is now giving his all to win.
So you could argue that Spidey could have indomitable but, my way would be more comic accurate. How many other characters would the same idea work for? A lot of them, save the indomitable for the bricks like Hulk and Thor.
When I was first starting out, my friend and I thought 2 action playing was dumb so we played 3 actions where we would push on our 3rd action. Our reasoning was that just about anyone should be able to run into battle then immediately punch someone in the face or fire a weapon without getting tired, but then maybe running again or punching repeatedly might make them tire.
When I got back into HeroClix earlier this year, I started play per the rulebook with 2 actions, pushing on your second. My observation is that playing 3 actions is a lot more boring than 2 actions, and it is a very much more point and click style when you virtually eliminate the strategic decision of whether to push.
That's pretty interesting that you were able to playtest it for such a long period of time. Do you feel that figures with indomitable are "boring" to play in a similar fashion to your old house rules, or are they rare/expensive enough that it doesn't seem to affect things?
I wish this were true, but unfortunately there isn't a single version of Black Adam or Captain Marvel that has Indomitable.
Pretty ridiculous considering Captain Marvel has the stamina of Atlas and Teth Adam swam against the current of the river Styx for 3000 years straight with no rest (Teth Adam talks about it in Power of Shazam! #47).
I like that all robot types are getting it, I always found it odd that they would suffer from pushing themselves. I also agree that it is being handed out a bit much to those who do not deserve it lately, with some big names who do deserve it not getting it.
See, I never got this argument. I just assumed that the robots had nuts and bolts breaking and flying off of them. "Whoops ... there goes my arm .... "
HCFL 2012 Champion - Nation X
KO Board: Streaky: 1 Krypto: 1
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Only problem is that Superclone is a unique member. The irrational members never get made uniques, which is why we see so many swarms of them.
Wow, that sounds incredibly lame. No wonder Superman's popularity is plummeting.
"I don't like something so no one likes it."
1) The types of things discussed are also present in the 1950s-1980s Superman comics. Morrison was homaging this in his book.
2) Superman's popularity is actually on the rise with his books being top sellers in the DCnU and Superman: Earth-One by JMS being one of the biggest selling graphic novels of all time.
HCFL 2012 Champion - Nation X
KO Board: Streaky: 1 Krypto: 1
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Only problem is that Superclone is a unique member. The irrational members never get made uniques, which is why we see so many swarms of them.
It seems odd that people would mention this because, of course any and every figure without Quintessence or Power Cosmic would be better with indomitable, I mean duh. Sort of like saying "Figure would be better with higher stats" or "figure would be better if it was better."
Still, it has been mentioned enough that I wanted to make a thread on it to discuss what it means about the player base's opinions on action tokens and pushing in general.
I just made a claim pretty similar to this about our new Gladiator: that I'd feel better playing him if he had Indomitable.
I'm usually in the camp that says Indomitable is handed out too often, but for this particular dial, I had to point it out. It's not even that I feel Gladiator himself deserves Indomitable (he really is anything but), but with that dial and at that cost, having Indomitable would have helped justify him.
At only 8 clicks deep and almost 200 points, pushing him is really not a great thing. Plus his trait is affected by the number of times he deals damage, so it encourages aggressiveness with him. He has a trait that would work better with pushing and a dial designed to not be pushed terribly much. To be honest, I do think the dial is quite accurate, and I would love it at a lower cost.
In general, though, I like the pushing mechanic as is. Big fan of Masters of Evil.
Love seeing willpower or indomitable come up and being relieved to see it, rather than expecting it and being disappointed when it is absent.
Of the 133 figs currently having Indomitable (according to the Units section), I would say, though, that only 3 that are really questionable: Jack Flag (and I am a Guardians of the Galaxy AND a Cap fan, mind you), Elektra (Daredevil fan, too), and Solovar (what about him conveys tirelessness or unshakable will, exactly?).
That's pretty interesting that you were able to playtest it for such a long period of time. Do you feel that figures with indomitable are "boring" to play in a similar fashion to your old house rules, or are they rare/expensive enough that it doesn't seem to affect things?
No, I don't mind Indom at all, for one because, as you said, it's rare and expensive, but also, note, I never played two action w/o pushing, I played a three action game, which changed the whole pace of the game, making it boring.