You have to think in real-time terms. All the actions going on are supposed to be happening simultaneously, in theory.

Mystics dmg is done simply for hitting and hurting a character with that ability. While the character is taking that mystics dmg, the Mystics character is also taking its clix of dmg at the same time.

Actions and abilities happen in an order for simplified game term purposes, but they are all technically happening within the span of a few seconds.

Wow no orange ruling yet. No offense to anyone posting, but I'll just wait to see what an orange says. I can see it going either way.

Those powers are not analogous to this power. Those powers specify that when they are revealed you stop turning the dial. So if we are using those particular powers to compare to this, shouldn't the wording of this power be something like:

THE SOURCE OF MAGIC: After the resolution of an action in which the In-Betweener takes damage if this power is showing, he deals 2 unavoidable damage instead of 1 unavoidable damage when using the Mystics team ability.

If that was the way it was intended to work?

FWIW, I agree with MrId. The power is active at the time Mystics feedback is dealt, and kicks in. I see this as analogous to powers like DC75th Doomsday, where his defense gets the modifier after he gets hit onto the SP, and he recieves the modifer for attacks that happened while the SP was not yet showing. (And yes, I do get that this is not an absolutely perfect analogy.)

What in the history of this game tells you that this is ever a good idea?

Wouldn't work, because mystics isn't dealt after the resolution of the action. So it would need to say something about ignoring Mystics, otherwise the power would never kick in.
Are they though? Have we gotten official confirmation on Gamma Bomb? Last I read was that SIF could still protect Blocking from destruction because simultaneous isn't really simultaneous. Also, if a game effect is simultaneous then the active player decides. But I don't see how they could choose to take Mystics BEFORE the Mystics character takes damage. I read it as a clear, NON-Simultaneous chain of events. Take damage (turn dial), deal Mystics.

I really do not see the reason there is a difference of opinion here? The power says 'takes' not 'has taken' Takes would indicate that the Mystic ability activates at the moment damage is dealt; basically, both the attacker and defender are clixing at the same time. Since In-Betweener is taking the damage while on his regular Mystic clixes, the damage would be 1.

Now if the power said 'has taken', then damage would be retroactive, so when In-Betweener landing of Source of Magic, the attacker would take 2 damage.

Because it has been a mainstay line of thought since the days of Rogue trader and other miniatures based games.

Any miniatures based TT game I have ever played has had this line of thought applied to it.

Perhaps this is only something I have grown up with over my 20+ years of TT gaming experience, but it has also been applied to the different states I have lived in as well as the various different gaming locations I have frequented over this time and within those areas.

Not saying that it is a good idea, or a bad idea, but an idea that has always been ingrained into me and my fellow TT gamers over the year.

FWIW, I completsly agree with you as far as timing goes, especially in other TT games. However, Heroclix often completely ignores any aspect if "real-world" relation, so why would "real-time" be any different? My comment was me being smart-mouthed about this.
And being as we already have turn-based actions, we know that events that would occur at the same time do no have effects that occur at the same time. Otherwise, turn-based fights are kinda silly as each person waits to be hit before hitting back, then waits to be hit again. It's like a kmbad kung fu movie...or the really funny "robot" fight scene i. Eurotrip...

What happens simultaneously in Heroclix? You deal two damage to the In-Betweener. I'll pick it up and while simultaneously reducing damage by two and turning the dial 0 clicks you take your Mystics damage. Sound good?

Except damage reducers are applied to damage dealt not damage taken. Damage dealt is not the same as damage taken.

No, it doesn't. Because damage taken (or even takes) can't be determined until after damage dealt has been modified. You are not making an equivalent statement here.


Regarding the issue at hand, we're looking into it. At first glance, though, I think the power must be showing.

MYSTICS
When a character using the Mystics team ability takes damage from an attack, the attacker is dealt 1 unavoidable damage. This damage is not an attack.

You determine that a character takes damage before you actually click its dial... if it weren't taking damage, you wouldn't click it. You may not know the exact amount it is taking (your characters stops taking damage when the KOs appear, potentially causing less damage taken then you initially suspected, as an example), but you do know that it is taking some amount of damage. Since it takes that damage, and you are starting to click, the Mystics would activate. No special power when it activates = no extra damage.


And before someone mentions the PG clarification about a character being KO'd still dealing Mystics damage, no where in that entry does it actually say that the timing I have laid out above is inaccurate. Instead, it is simply there to cut off any potential argument, before it even begins, about KO'd characters with the TA.

Right, exactly, so there's an order there, despite it being simultaneous. Damage Taken is a single event, go way back and look at the wording of KICK ME!: Whenever Bombastic Bag-Man takes damage from an attack, deal the attacker penetrating damage equal to the damage taken by Bombastic Bag-Man.

Compare to Mystics: MYSTICS
When a character using the Mystics team ability takes
damage from an attack, the attacker is dealt 1
unavoidable damage. This damage is not an attack.

Same wording, and yet, it is clear that the damage is TAKEN by the character first. I don't see how this doesn't clearly imply that there is a still a definite order of the actions. Damage taken, Mystics given.

The difference, to me, is Kick Me! is clearly dependent on knowing how much damage is taken. Don't know how much unavoidable damage to dish out until you know how much Bag-Man took.

Mystics has no such reliance on knowing the final damage taken. It is merely looking for a trigger. The trigger is "takes damage". Takes, as in "happening currently", and not taken, as in "already happened".

I'm not trying to argue with you here, but to clarify my statement. What I mean is is that nowhere is it laid out that "Damage Dealt is reduced, then if the number is greater than 0 then Damage is taken." At least, not that I can find explicitly stated. However yes, it is clearly implicitly implied that that is the order. Likewise it seemed to me that it is implicitly implied that damage is taken, than retaliation occurs. Just like it is implied by Kick Me as seen above.

Wait, so the need to know changes the timing? One says it happens when one "takes damage" the other when one "takes damage" but because one counts that damage it changes the timing? That seems.... inconsistent.