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yes, but it allows him to target that character regardless of LOF for specific purposes: Outwit, Perplex and a ranged attack. And when you give him the RCA to use PW, and you start drawing LOF to determine what figures have their powers ignored etc, you aren't doing the things that allow him to ignore the need for LOF. So those things can't happen.
So, you are saying that because Strange can't draw a LoF to the tagged character, he can't make ranged combat attack targeting that character?
Yet, his power clearly says: "can target that character regardless of -- line of fire when making a ranged combat attack"
Is he making a ranged combat attack with PW? Yes, he is. So he will target the tagged character, because the can (must) target that character.
So, you are saying that because Strange can't draw a LoF to the tagged character, he can't make ranged combat attack targeting that character?
Yet, his power clearly says: "can target that character regardless of -- line of fire when making a ranged combat attack"
Is he making a ranged combat attack with PW? Yes, he is. So he will target the tagged character, because the can (must) target that character.
Yes, it does say that. But, when you draw LOF to all the figures within half range and ignore the effects they use that figure isn't included because you aren't doing any of the things Strange's power specifies. When you determine what the damage value of the Pw attack is that value is based on how many figures had those LOF drawn to them, so he doesn't affect that. And so forth...
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
Yes, it does say that. But, when you draw LOF to all the figures within half range and ignore the effects they use that figure isn't included because you aren't doing any of the things Strange's power specifies. When you determine what the damage value of the Pw attack is that value is based on how many figures had those LOF drawn to them, so he doesn't affect that. And so forth...
Yes, I already agreed with this part. The attack will still target the tagged character is what I'm saying, but you and Harpua seemed to disagree.
...if that doesn't scare you, Harpua, you aren't awake yet...
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
Yes, I already agreed with this part. The attack will still target the tagged character is what I'm saying, but you and Harpua seemed to disagree.
Well, I personally still stumble over this other little issue: the damage from PW is dealt to the figures you drew LOF to in the beginning (it's specific to the power). So how does it even deal damage to that figure?
And as I've said elsewhere, this is an example of the kind of issue the growing complexity of the game presents. The resolution of this will have impact on future interaction questions, because you're establishing principles and guidelines on how you look at a kind of interaction, and wiggle room will gradually shrink (or else we'll get a lot of event-specific rulings that are in general conflict.) I'm not saying the complexity shouldn't occur, but honestly the task of sorting out how all this works together is more difficult than it has ever been in the past and it will get more so, not less. i personally would be afraid to make any but the most basic rulings here without consulting with my peers, were I a Deputy.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
Well, I personally still stumble over this other little issue: the damage from PW is dealt to the figures you drew LOF to in the beginning (it's specific to the power). So how does it even deal damage to that figure?
Ok, PW says:
Make a single ranged combat attack and compare the attack total to the defense value of all other characters with a line of fire drawn to it; each character hit is dealt damage.
So you are making a ranged combat attack against all characters that you draw LoF. But the dealing of damage is not linked to the LoF, it is linked to being hit. So, you are making a ranged combat attack and because of how Stange's power is worded, you must also target the tagged character. So if the tagged character is hit, it will be dealt damage.
EDIT: If it helps you to understand how I'm seeing this, then just change "characters with a line of fire drawn to it" to "targeted characters".
...if that doesn't scare you, Harpua, you aren't awake yet...
Not really. I have a high respect for your rules knowlege.
Quote : Originally Posted by necrodog
i personally would be afraid to make any but the most basic rulings here without consulting with my peers, were I a Deputy.
If you go back to the original "What is a rules deputy?" thread, you'll note that our duty is to provide an answer of our opinion and then check on it. I've done that. I've given my opinion (then reversed it for a different opinion) and have illuminated the Dep-Signal for further review.
Make a single ranged combat attack and compare the attack total to the defense value of all other characters with a line of fire drawn to it; each character hit is dealt damage.
So you are making a ranged combat attack against all characters that you draw LoF. But the dealing of damage is not linked to the LoF, it is linked to being hit. So, you are making a ranged combat attack and because of how Stange's power is worded, you must also target the tagged character. So if the tagged character is hit, it will be dealt damage.
But you never drew LoF to the tagged figure in the first place, so how are you figuring that he was hit?
The way that you are interpreting Dr. Strange's power, you are saying that once the other figure is tagged, that's the only figure that Strange can Perplex, Outwit, or shoot.
Because Strange's power forces him to target that character when he is making a ranged combat attack.
As I said above (which may have been missed as it was an edit), such an interpretation would also mean that you feel that once Strange chooses to tag a figure, that is the only one he is allowed to shoot, Outwit, or Perplex.
What you are saying is that Strange wants to shoot Dormammu, but he has tagged the Mindless One. Since he can shoot the Mindless One, then he must do so.
I see your point about that, but there's no way that I believe that was ever intended. I'll bubble it up, though, just to make sure.
As I said above (which may have been missed as it was an edit), such an interpretation would also mean that you feel that once Strange chooses to tag a figure, that is the only one he is allowed to shoot, Outwit, or Perplex.
I believe it would fall under the ruling on how actions aren't mandatory. Meaning that if you don't specifically say you are attacking that opponent, then you are not attacking that opponent.
But PW targets everyone who has a LoF drawn to them and Strange can target the tagged character regardless of LoF. PW is a multi-targeting attack already, so the tagged character will be one of the multiple targets because of how Strange's power is worded.
Bsically, to me it all boils down to this one sentence in PW: "Make a single ranged combat attack and compare the attack total to the defense value of all other characters with a line of fire drawn to it"
Strange can target the tagged character without line of fire with a ranged combat attack, so to that one character this sentence would read like: "Make a single ranged combat attack and compare the attack total to the defense value of all other characters"
The tagged character would be the only character that would fall under the "all other characters" here, because he is the only character that Strange can target without LoF.
I think VP is speaking in the very specific circumstances of Dr. Strange using pulse wave.
"Strange can range anyone he wants, even if he took his "tagging" free action. but if he makes the tag, and then pulse waves, does the tag not imply the tagged character be included, at some point?"
Which I hadn't thought of.
But the problem happens with the timing right? Because the "targeting sequence" in PW is not a ranged attack itself, the taggee gets left out of the whole thing.
Last edited by AlphaHumanus; 07/13/2012 at 10:45..
Reason: clarification.
But the problem happens with the timing right? Because the "targeting sequence" in PW is not a ranged attack itself, the taggee gets left out of the whole thing.