Mind Control is the coolest power in this game.

That's way more hilarious coming from a guy with Baron Zemo as his avatar.

And thanks Suttkus. Now I know why you're on everyone's list.

Not to detract from the portion of the discussion about Victoria Hand's penetrating damage power but I think my bigger issue lies with the points distribution portion of the conversation. The whole argument revolves around this:

Why is this even still in the Player's guide? To me, this looks like a relic from the time where we calculated points by tallying our own left-over points and the points that we'd taken in kills from the opponent. Nowadays, I can't find a single scenario where this makes sense.

With Mind control, we don't have to worry about anything because the characters return to their owner after the action resolves. Ok, non-issue.

With the other indefinite possession-changing characters, your opponents get the points for -your kill-, which could potentially shaft you in the long-run if the tournament is a smaller one, in which a 2-1 record is good enough for a win. This happens in every single case. Your Galactus gets taken by Deadman and you proceed to hand him 600+ points by defending yourself.

So again, is there any instance where this little portion of the PG actually does something that makes sense for the game? If there is (or even if there's not), is there anything that would stop us from calculating points for KO's as you go? Most of the "returning to the map" scenarios address the topic of a KO. Heck, the Lazarus Pit does it that way and there's no problem there.

Wait wait ... hold on ... back up a minute ...

There's a rulebook?

[quote=dutch_brennan;6613300]Not to detract from the portion of the discussion about Victoria Hand's penetrating damage power but I think my bigger issue lies with the points distribution portion of the conversation. The whole argument revolves around this:



Why is this even still in the Player's guide? To me, this looks like a relic from the time where we calculated points by tallying our own left-over points and the points that we'd taken in kills from the opponent. Nowadays, I can't find a single scenario where this makes sense.

I think the scenario we are discussing is why it is there.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're referring to when you say this.

Normalview's quote explains how the victory points process works but doesn't explain why that errata is still in there. My question revolves around the question of why it's still there, making it function in that very strange way.

The rulebook quote simply refers to the fact that a resource assigned to a character does not accompany them when they change hands. This functions the same regardless of the PG quote.

What I'm looking for here is something along the lines of, "We need the victory point quote in the player's guide because if we don't have it <insert whatever bad thing> happens."

Because there are many ways for a character to switch sides: Possession, You Appear More Worthy, and now this with Victoria just off the top of my head.

Because characters can switch sides, more or less permanently, that could really skew stuff point-wise at the end of the game. So that bit is in the PG to cover these corner cases.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. It's true that there are more ways nowadays to switch sides. Thus, why this topic is actually pretty important. In this case, it just seems that the PG entry actually makes the skewing effect worse.

With Victoria, if the PG entry wasn't there the owning player could stand to make an extra 40 points, sure. On the other hand, the trade-off is that you just handed your opponent a 10 attack psychic blaster, with the Shield TA. That could be pretty formidable. If the player is worried about the tentpole falling down, he will have her dead in 4 rounds, max. So without some sort of perk, why bother?

With Deadman, if the PG entry wasn't there, he would be taking a character for a price -- the possibility of losing more points in the bout. As it stands, you just happily take your opponent's characters, let them make you some points by killing their own characters while you use them to wreak havoc.

The only reasonable argument I see is with Apocalypse but that's mainly because an entirely different can of worms. With him, you could cut your beat up 200 point character loose in exchange for a reasonably fresh 150 point character, creating a 50 point deficit for your opponent and trading away a mashed up character for a fresher one. The other can of worms is that he simply can't fail at doing this - whereas Deadman at least needs a successful attack roll. However, in a game that more than 500 points and where Apocalypse is half dead, is the PG "fix" worth minimizing Apocalypse's ability?

So I really just don't see how this PG entry does anything positive for the game. Maybe when we added remaining points with kill points to determine the total victory points it might have made sense but nowadays, everything revolves around kills (as it should). Plus, if we were worried about skewing points, I'm not sure Master Mold would exist, nor would Galactus be poofing in his herald.

Again, if I am missing some vital game-breaking point, I'm all ears. Just looking at these examples, though, I just don't see it.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. This little issue had more than a handful of people at the venue I play at up in arms this past weekend.

Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd look for a quick answer here.

I have a question about AEs in relation to her other power

"NEW AVENGERS COORDINATOR: Victoria Hand and adjacent friendly characters with the Avengers keyword modify their attack values by +1 if they are on their first click."

Is an AEs orange line considered it's first click?

That's a good question. I would say yes, because it has their starting line.

Lol. How did you even find this thread to Necro it?

I needed to link it to answer a more recent question, and I always read through a thread before linking it. It was dumb luck. But I should probably go digging for other questions lost to time that were never answered. It could be fun!