Maybe that's my problem. 99% of the games I play are for fun at someone's house, with friends. If this game is a tournament game before it's a home game, then I understand where you're coming from. Perhaps I live in a rose-colored heroclix world.

This. However limited, extra abilities like Phoenix SS cost MORE points. Slight upgrades to existing abilities is not as strong as gaining non existent ones.

I'm in a similar situation, in that I play with a group of generally self-policing, like-minded individuals.

I don't know...I just see a change like this leading to more NPEs all around, as well as more Rules Forum bickering taking up the front page.

Not sure it'd be a net gain.

Well wouldn't you be part of that jerky minority?

This whole thread is because you specifically want to combo powers together. You don't like this ruling because it's preventing you from making those combos. Sure, the one you made may not be all that broken, but that doesn't mean someone won't find something better.

As I said earlier, I'm against exploiting loopholes. There are current ones that I also hope to get rectified in the next PG.

I will always be for rules that keep things simple and prevent loopholes and broken combos.

"Choose one" seems more streamlined than what we currently have. I doubt a "choose one" rule would generate 14+ pages that the Batarang thread has.

Sorry, missed the "someone who has no SS" in your post.
Still, 1-in-6 is much better than 0-in-6, isn't it?

A simple addition to the description of certain powers such as "when used in this way" or some such indicating the additional effects only apply when used through the special power would also curb lengthy discussions like the batarang thread.

Of course. And that's the point I was trying to make. Phoenix will benefit less from gaining regular SS than someone who doesn't have it at all. You're basically circumventing her "limitation" less than the limitation of possibly having zero defensive powers in the first place (you have a nice, blank 17).

Yep, but if you pull out the posts arguing that the current rule doesn't mean what it says, and the posts arguing for/against changing the rule, that thread is probably 70% shorter. Player's choice is more streamlined, but how about this: if Batgirl chooses the dial Incap instead of the resource Incap, when she loses it on the dial can she use the resource she chose against or is it permanently "off"?

Yup. A nice wording bible is needed. Heroclix white power abilities seem to be worded all over the place.

I don't think so. The jerk is the one looking to exploit a rule and push it to its absolute limit. I'm trying to understand why a rule exists and if its limiting factors outweigh its loopholes. I'm sure someone will find something better and exploit it. But what has that got to do with the 99% of figures that wouldn't be exploitable?

Should we stop manufacturing spoons because someone in prison may file it down into a shiv? Don't give in to terrorists, Chrisdosmil.

She can chose to use it now. That's how it currently works. If I have Batarangs attached and my dial Incap is Outwitted, the Batarangs kick in.

Edit - Also, Orange ruled in the Batarang thread that duplication does indeed work differently than how a lot of people in the thread were positive the rules work, ie the entire dial doesn't shut down. You just ignore the duplication and any direct abilities tied to it such as the resource Batarangs.

I think the decision would come when used not once per turn or whatnot if you were allowed a choice. If you use an action to use incapacitate you declare you are using batarangs or ELECTRO-MAGNA-GOOPERANGS. If you lose one you no longer have more than one option.

Assuming player's choice it's demonstrable that the cost of the power from an outside source will be higher for someone not using a dial-sourced version than for someone who didn't have that power dial-sourced. Gauntlet-sourced SS for Phoenix would cost her more than SS for a figure that had none. Are we saying the same thing?

Well you should have started your argument a better way. You specifically used a character and a resource with special effects and wondered why you couldn't combo them.

You should have just used a character with regular smoke cloud that wanted to use the gas pellets.

I honestly would have no problem with a character that can use a standard power/ability "paying the points" to get a special version of the power/ability. I'm OK with that.

I'm against combining special effects and being able to choose effects if one is better than the other.