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I think that Ignore Characters for Improved Targeting would prevent a character with it from ever making an attack as they would be ignoring the characters they are attacking. I think that's ridiculous and not at all what was intended. I think "for LOF purposes only" and "for movement purposes only" is what is intended. BUT I can't find those words anywhere and maybe I'm missing them but if I am I wish someone would point them out and if I'm not I wish someone would point out why people keep acting like those words are there.
Ideally I would like a Dep to say "the new PG will say 'for movement/LOF purposes only'".
Arent those powers under improved targeting and movement though? Wouldnt that restrict their meaning to those categories?
I think that Ignore Characters for Improved Targeting would prevent a character with it from ever making an attack as they would be ignoring the characters they are attacking. I think that's ridiculous and not at all what was intended. I think "for LOF purposes only" and "for movement purposes only" is what is intended. BUT I can't find those words anywhere and maybe I'm missing them but if I am I wish someone would point them out and if I'm not I wish someone would point out why people keep acting like those words are there.
Ideally I would like a Dep to say "the new PG will say 'for movement/LOF purposes only'".
IT:Ignore characters does not ignore the target. As that would make the character unable to draw the LoF. A situation that trigger this rule:
Quote
If ignoring a game effect would cause a situation where that game effect would not be ignored, then you do not ignore that game effect.
Quote : Originally Posted by z06need4speed
Arent those powers under improved targeting and movement though? Wouldnt that restrict their meaning to those categories?
It's only stated indirectly by the rules.
Quote : Originally Posted by rulebook pg. 19
Improved characters possess combat abilities that allow them to move more freely or enhance their ability to draw lines of fire
Good to know, I appreciate the reference. However Deathstroke's power ONLY works because of WHEN. We still have IM Ignore Characters resulting in A has the ability, and it protects them from B even though B isn't ignoring anything. It's still completely contrary to the ruling we have here. Batman with the Cowl isn't ignoring Blocking, nor is Deathstroke ignoring Characters. Right? Or am I missing something.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
Can you only use attack powers like Poison when attacking?
No, because the PAC specifically says it's a free action at the beginning of your turn.
Quote : Originally Posted by thrawn22
this is why i think chris is correct. this seems to be an issue of what ignore means or the order in which the effects take place. im looking at this like how pulsewaved has been explained when what ignore means and effects. if a piece has super strength while holding an object is PWed, unless he loses the SS, he still holds the object because PW ignored SS, not cancel it or make it go away.
in this case the wall still exists allowing the cowls effect to still be in place.
This is a great way to put it!
On the flip side, you could compare this to a flier who is already moving... they ignore all figures for movement so they don't have to stop when entering adjacency, right? Well, what about when one of them has Plasticity as a power? That changes how the flier's power works where they can't avoid it. Yes, the flier is ignoring the figure for movement, but not the power.
This is a similar situation where NORMALLY, IT:Blocking would ignore the wall, but the cowl gives a special power that has a different condition. Yes, he's ignoring the wall for LOF purposes, but the power is one thing it can't ignore. It is a confusing topic because there are other examples, but the exact wording is what makes the difference... does that help to explain it?
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
IMPROVED MOVEMENT
A character with the symbol uses the effects indicated by its character card. Improved Movement activates whenever the character moves.
IMPROVED TARGETING
A character with the symbol uses the effects indicated by its character card. Improved Targeting activates whenever the character draws a line of fire.
This is what tells us that those abilities don't do anything unless the character is moving or drawing a line of fire.
This is what tells us that those abilities don't do anything unless the character is moving or drawing a line of fire.
I get what the intent is. I still maintain the verbiage doesn't match intent. I'm also starting to question the sanity of people who see things that aren't there. That tells us when it activates. Can you show me where it says it deactivates? Powers and abilities without a specified duration are in effect until the power or ability is lost or countered. That's a rule. So is the ability lost or countered as soon as they stop moving or drawing LOF? In fact once a power or ability has been activated even if it's countered or lost it will remain in effect until the action used to activate it is fully resolved. Again, that's an actual rule. And drawing LOF is not an action of any sort. So the action that activates IT is going to be a RCA of some sort. Which means the ability must be in effect until it's completely resolved. So what we have is something that doesn't follow the rules as currently written. It happens quite a bit in this game. Sometimes even after its pointed out and altered acknowledged it goes years without being put in the PAC or PG (HSS vs Mystics). I'm not whining about it. Just pointing it out because it is irritating and it makes it more difficult for local judges who must often times work with the wordings as written.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
Page 17 of the Rulebook.
"Game effects remain a part of the game only as long as the character continues to possess the power or ability. If a power or ability is countered or lost, all game effects of that power or ability immediately end, but any actions already in progress are resolved normally. Tokens that are placed on characters or character cards for any reason are not considered a game effect. If ignoring a game effect would cause a situation where that game effect would not be ignored, then you do not ignore that game effect."
This was first in the PG as different entries, then the Rulebook but incomplete, then a PG entry that clarified it, and now in the Rulebook complete. So I apologize if the wording I quoted was from an older source, as I was on my phone. The EXACT wordings I used were taken from Several Deputies Rules answers in the past year.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
I think part of the issue may be along the same lines as what my signature says... you're putting real-world logic into something that doesn't go by real-world logic, it goes by game logic. If Iron Man had a thermal imaging arrary (which may be mis-spelled in the units section, but I don't have the card on me), he could see Batman no matter how well he's hiding unless it's in freezing water (and maybe not even then)... but the exact wording points out that he can't see Batman because it's the cowl activating the power, not the blocking terrain. IM is ignoring the blocking, but the cowl isn't... just like my previous example of a flier ignores the figure bases they are flying over, but the plasticity doesn't. Does that help clear it up?
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????