Incap can deal damage, though, to a target that already has two tokens. Which is why it can activate Mystics, too.

Again, thank you for your ruling. As I stated earlier on this thread, I do not want to take anything for granted--that's why I asked the followup question.

While I find it incongruous that you can deal damage on a NO DAMAGE attack and benefit** from some outcomes and not others, I will respect the ruling and apply it should the situation(s) arise at my venue.

**I use the word benefit loosely here because I do not think triggering Mystics is a benefit.

I think the key to understanding attacks that deal no damage is to realize that there's a key difference between an attack deals no damage and an attack that deals 0 damage. And that the "no damage attack"-mechanic only applies to the actual attack mechanic itself not any additional effects that may have been added to it.

Thanks for trying to console me. I get what you are saying. But if you look at the power, it states deal 1 penetrating damage in the last sentence. It changes from "no" to "1." That's part of my hangup. The other is the word "deal." The way I understand it, the last sentence creates a situation where the power is now dealing damage and therefore supersedes the first sentence. That's all. I'm wrong, I get it. I don't mind that--I just like to raise questions.

Thank you. I misunderstood, I guess. I thought mystics triggered solely based on the wording of mystics ta;

When a character using the Mystics team ability takes damage from an attack, the attacker is dealt 1 unavoidable damage. This damage is not an attack.

so that it only mattered that the mystic took damage not whether the attack dealt damage.

It seems like a mighty fine hair to split to say that incap can deal enough damage to activate EE but not enough to activate crits.

Not to seem argumentative and I certainly appreciate the input but now I'm worse off than I thought I was before.

Don't think of No Damage as an attack that doesn't have any damage being dealt, think of it more as a Game Term that effect how that attack works.

An "Attack that deals no damage" is a Heroclix rule mechanic,and here's where you're right: It should probably be called something else, because in some niche situations like this one, it ends up dealing damage.

Think of it like this:

The rules have a thing called an "Attack" They are a type of combat action. They come in two varieties: "close combat" & "ranged combat".

An attack is:

Declaration of attacker
Specification of target
Determination of any modifiers or triggered game effects
Dice roll
Any additional game effects
Successfully hit targets check for any game effects
Damage is dealt to hit targets, with any modifiers applied
Action tokens / resolution.

A lot of operations for one word right?

An attack that deals no damage has all the same steps, with one missing:

Declaration of attacker
Specification of target
Determination of any modifiers (ignore all modifiers to damage) or triggered game effects
Dice roll (Ignore any damage from critical hits or misses)
Any additional game effects
Successfully hit targets check for any game effects
Action tokens / resolution.

If any of the remaining operations cause any of the involved characters to be dealt damage, they are. There is no rule that says they don't.

The problem is in my head, but thank you all for trying. Rep all the way around.

I having a little trouble wrapping my head around the Incapacitate+Energy Explosion interaction. I remember reading this article that mentions Energy Explosion getting a quick errata to trigger only on hit targets being ASSIGNED damage but even after reading the section in the article about Incapacitate+Energy Explosion I can't figure out why it works. The biggest issue I have is why does the Incapacitates damage count as damage assigned when it's more of a byproduct of a separate effect. I can understand the Mystic interaction as it's damage that happened in the course of an attack, but this still has me a little confused. I know it works, I just don't really know WHY it works....if that makes any sense. :/

It's nice to not be alone.

Here's what it looks like:

1. CRITICAL MISS - no result, no damage to either character.
2. STANDARD MISS - no result.

3. STANDARD HIT (target with no action token) - target receives an action token.
4. CRITICAL HIT (target with no action token) - target receives an action token, no damage is dealt.

5. STANDARD HIT (target with one action token) - target receives an additional token, pushing damage is dealt if it cannot use Willpower.
6. CRITICAL HIT (target with one action token) - target receives an additional token, pushing damage is dealt if it cannot use Willpower; no additional damage is dealt.

7. STANDARD HIT (target with two action tokens) - target is dealt 1 penetrating damage, an area of effect is created if the attacker can use Energy Explosion, the attacker is dealt 1 unavoidable damage if the target can use Mystics.
8. CRITICAL HIT (target with two action tokens) - target is dealt 1 penetrating damage, an area of effect is created if the attacker can use Energy Explosion, the attacker is dealt 1 unavoidable damage if the target can use Mystics; the 1 penetrating damage is NOT increased to the critical hit.

The 1 penetrating damage dealt in scenario 7 & 8 is from an attack and is the prerequisite to trigger EE and Mystics.

Conversely, the damage dealt is not increased in scenario 8 because the whole action is an attack that deals no damage.

Hope that helps!

I appreciate the attempt to help. I fully understand how it works, I am just afraid this one of those that we will see again and again in the rules section.

Your explanation is thorough and describes the scenario's well.

The shorter explanation is to say that the crits are looked for at the time of the roll, at which point the attack is that which deals no damage and then that part of the attack is over. From there you move onto token distribution and if at this point damage is generated EE or mystics trigger, then resolve which is where pushing occurs to targets that received a 2nd token.