No take backs, in real life you can't hit a reset button. I don't expect leniency to take my actions back and often I do t get breaks, make them commit to the action.

I don't see the problem here.

In a competitive setting, I'm pretty lenient by most standards, most of the time. If a player wants to make an adjustment to an action he's in the middle of, or has just completed but hasn't moved on, I'll almost always give it to them. For example, if a player says "I'm going to Running Shot Iron Man" and then, before rolling the dice says "Wait, I have two targets, I'll also target Captain America" I'll totally let him do it. Hell, if he hasn't rolled the dice I'll even let him change targets if he only has one target. It's not that big a thing to me as long as nothing else has happened.

Bizarro Green Arrow is not that. His effect is becoming the target, and in fact, that's his only function. If the opponent overlooks that when it's looking them right int he face, it's their fault. In a casual setting I wouldn't pay it much mind and I'd probably let it go at least once. Competitively, very unlikely, even with my laid-back mindset.

BGA, Shape Change, and Plasticity are all similar in this respect. Once they're called/rolled, the action is in progress and that's that.

A while back, I think maybe eight months ago, I was at a ROC playing Super Skrull and Element Man. My opponent had Shifting Superman, Balls of Fury, and Klarion. Because I was aware of the general idea behind the team, I chose Plasticity on Super Skrull to keep my opponent from HSS-rushing me with Superman, and I took a damage from Super Skrull's trait roll.

So what's my opponent do? He HSS-Carries Fury up with Superman and tries to punch Super Skrull. I couldn't believe it! As he started rolling the dice for the attack, I told him the action was over because of the plasticity I chose for Super Skrull. He immediately tried to replace Superman and Fury back where he began the action, and I said he could not. He got the judge involved, believing it was his right to do so, and the judge told him if I wasn't willing to let it go, he couldn't, because that's how plasticity works. Because he declared the attack from the adjacent square, he was clearly committed to being in that square, so that's where he was stopped. I paid for that power by taking damage to have it that turn; if he blundered into it like that after I'd declared it clearly to him, I was capitalizing on it. It also had him in a terrible position for the rest of the game, and I overpowered him easily because of that error on his part.

And I did let him adjust a Perplex (or was it Outwit...) later in the game. It's just that walking into Plasticity I'm paying for is too big to let go, especially in a competitive setting.

But this is how BGA works. He tells you that you target him. Once your opponent declares it, that's the end of it. No backsies, you're shooting him. What I don't understand is why nobody's proposing to just punch the intended target instead of shoot 'em, where BGA can't interject.



*For reference, in a casual setting, I've even let a player who I hate change his Perplex in a game before. And when I say "hate," I mean "if he died I would order Chinese and celebrate his demise." He's a cheater, mind you. If you think I'm joking or exaggerating, think again.

i agree here. if i didnt take the time to read a card and thus didnt understand what a figure could do i dont take back the action i just remember not to make that mistake again. me and my friends like to play somewhat complicated figures and elements at times so this can happen a lot with us. generally except for one guy who gets upset by anything he doesnt like no one have an issue with saying oops well ill remember that later and just take the action anyway.

however if i were playing with someone that was unfamiliar with the game (such as one friend we are currently trying to get to play) i would make sure they knew exactly what the character did before the game even began so there would be no confusion

in a competitive game(which i rarely participate in) i probably wouldnt let the person take it back honestly... and i sure wouldnt expect my opponent to let me take an action back once i realized it was a bad idea/wasnt going to work as planed

There are plenty of special powers that attack without targeting, but my point is actually the opposite. Can you target without attacking? It has been ruled that you can target with Outwit when you can't counter a power, so you could... maybe... infer that you can target with an attack without attacking.

Isn't that what shape change kinda does?

When this character is chosen as the target of an attack, you may roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, the attacker can’t target this character with an attack this turn and the attacker may choose another target character instead. The attacker then makes the attack unless there are no targets, in which case the action resolves without an attack.

But I don't get where you're going with this with BizArrow.


BizArrow
BizArrow
BisArrow

Yeah, I don't really see any wiggle room for allowing or expecting a take-back.

The action was given in order to initiate the attack. You've certainly passed that point if you are to the point of declaring a target.

I'm generally judging, so if I play, then my games aren't usually counted. I will play less strictly in those games, but in other games I'd be expecting a proper game state to be maintained.

If the person doesn't like something he realizes after initiating the action, then that is simply too bad. The train has left the station, and it isn't coming back.

At what point does one stop allowing take-backs?

"I'm using Psychic Blast against your Wonder Woman."
"Ok. She's got Mystics from Predator."
"Oh, then I'll attack Hal Jordan instead."

"I'm attacking Bag-Man"
"Ok. You'll be taking as much damage as he takes."
"Oh, then I'll attack Hawkeye instead."

"I'm attacking Black Dwarf."
"Nice. Please hit him hard. You'll be taking as much damage as you dealt if he gets KOed."
"Oh, I'll attack Gamora instead."

In all of those cases, the response should be "Sorry, but no. The declared attacks are legal."

It's the same thing with BGA.

I'm sorry that you crapped the bed, but you did, so now you must lie in it.

In all of those cases, I would be fine with take-backs.

But, I also point out things like, "Are you sure you want to move him there? I will fly up and smack you with an Ultra-Heavy if you do."

I don't go that far. But I would say, "Just a reminder before you do, he has super strength and is carrying a jet engine."

But I don't really reveal stuff that's not in play, so the above isn't the best example.

For instance, I reveal current defense values of people in range when someone says they want to attack. My logic here is the same thing that people are saying. All of the info isn't hidden. So I might as well tell them the current state. Then when they make their action, they can't say I need to take that back because I didn't know.

That is fine for you, but that is contrary to the actual structure of the game. No player should be going into a game expecting that sort of treatment.

The only time that such a practice should ever be expected is as a reciprocation, but even then you should not be surprised if it isn't given. (Yes, I've played games where I've given tons of leeway to the opponent only have him later deny a request from me. Needless to say, the rest of that game and all subsequent games against that player have been played with me allowing absolutely no leeway whatsoever.)

or we just all run outsiders so GA can't do anything about it.

The only thing Outsiders would do is prevent the modifiers. Outsiders will absolutely not prevent GA from forcing you to attack him instead of the actual threat.

Kind of, but no. Shape Change makes you no longer a target, the question here is can you maintain being the target and yet not be attacked. To see where I'm going, see my previous post involving BGA and Gate Guardian.

That's a weird one, but I think because BizArrow says even if it's illegal, it might trump GG. I'm not sure though.

After the pulsewave ruling Bizarrow is even stronger and I think he now actually has a gotcha moment. I had planned on if I face him trying to pulsewave just the people he is guarding to make a single target pulse against him ignoring reducers and brce but now that his effects are not ignored I guess the best thing is base or p/pb

I feel its the same thing as when someone forgets that a character has plasticity and hypersonics right into it. This is more commonplace than anything else I can think of that gives sour grapes. So many SPs contain plasticity as an add on and opponent forget about it or they dont ask about it.

Oh they have plasticity? I'll go here instead. Nope sorry...that's the whole reason the power even works against hypersonic. It's a defensive power or a board control power that's passive in application. I also hate when I place my figure with plasticity next to you and you try to break away then I say you succeed on a 6 and they say nevermind. Nope, you wanted to break away and already declared it...so roll.