TRANSFORMERS: Robots In Disguise (Custom Set) - Page 4

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TRANSFORMERS: Robots In Disguise (Custom Set)

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06/28/2019, 15:08

#46

Baron Impossible

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this og was the original autotuned, amirite? that voice alone was stone cold cool, but his whole schtick of popping out minions made him such a bamf. and the fact that he was a cassette player for crying out loud, but believably still one of the most dangerous decipticons makes him all the more crazytown

i'm looking forward to seeing the cassette dials to further see how they interact with him, but i'm already digging what you did with the setup. and the mechanics of how he transforms, opting for a singular wild click over trying to force it into a full dialed piece was very shrewd.

the

sp makes him a mega nerfer, and combines with his lack of m&a to further enforce his commander archetype role. he's a general, not a scraper first and foremost but a he can back it up. the fb flavor immediately makes me think "it's about to go down"

. and when you really want it to go down, switch to the boombox (delightfully

) that your allies can move into position and drop the sickest remix in clix

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06/28/2019, 15:55

#47

Hein2208

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That's a cool way to handle Soundwave's transformation. His minion-mechanic also seems fun from a game-play perspective, and fits him perfectly.

A few rules-related notes:

1. The cassettes:
1.1. Bringing in character's from the sideline: You're using "generate" wrong. "generate" is used when you bring in new game elements from outside the game, not from the sideline.
In place of "generate", I suggest "Place up to 2 characters with the Soundwave Minions keyword from your sideline adjacent to Soundwave on click #11".

1.2. Limiting sideline characters: Since you can't use "generate" above, you also can't use "[MAX X]". "[MAX X]" limits the number of identical generated elements that one character can put on the map at once.
In place of "[MAX X]" in the trait "Cassettes" I suggest "... you may include up to 5 different characters in your sideline...".
Your other use of "[MAX X]" would be complicated to phrase properly. I think it would be easier to follow the example of Chameleon, and give the cassettes a name on Soundwave's card. I suggest this change:

Quote

Cassettes: During force construction, you may include up to 5 different characters in your sideline with the Soundwave Minion keyword, adding 5 points to Soundwave's point cost for each. These characters are Cassettes this game.

Minions, Attack: POWER: Place up to 2 Cassettes from your sideline adjacent to Soundwave on click #11. // FREE: If there are less than 5 Cassettes in your sideline, place an adjacent friendly character with the Soundwave Minions keyword that began the turn on the map, on your sideline. That character is now a Cassette this game.

[...]

(+25 Points)

Soundwave Superior: Mastermind. Friendly characters with the Soundwave Minions keyword have Willpower.

I don't see any reason to change that last trait. It also applies to characters with the keyword that are a part of your starting force (and aren't associated with Soundwave's first trait), but that's fine.
This change still allows two copies of Soundwave on the same force to each have their own 5 Cassettes on the sideline. One Soundwave doesn't recognize another Soundwave's Cassettes as Cassettes, when counting them or looking for them.

2. Giving PROTECTED for a single action: There's no problem here, but I was surprised that it works, so I wanted to go through the sequence of events, because I find it interesting. As far as I can tell, this is how it would unfold:

A friendly character is targeted by, let's say, Outwit.
Soundwave does his thing, and rolls, let's say, a 6.
The character gains "PROTECTED: Outwit".
The character has already been targeted, so Outwit should proceed as normal.
The opponent chooses a power, and Outwit takes effect.
"PROTECTED: Outwit" causes Outwit's duration to expire immediately, ending the effect.
The action resolves, and then the character loses "PROTECTED: Outwit".
The result is that the enemy has effectively wasted that use of Outwit this turn.

I wasn't sure if Outwit got to proceed, but based on this ruling, I would say that "PROTECTED: Outwit"'s effect that prevents targeting has already been bypassed by the time the character gains the keyphrase.

06/28/2019, 17:06

#48

Renokhan

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First off, thank you guys for the quality feedback. I know I say this a lot, but it really does mean a great deal to me that you take the time to respond.

Quote : Originally Posted by Baron Impossible

this og was the original autotuned, amirite?

You know you're right. I almost used "Bad Ass Voice" for his perplex flavor text.

Quote

that voice alone was stone cold cool, but his whole schtick of popping out minions made him such a bamf. and the fact that he was a cassette player for crying out loud, but believably still one of the most dangerous decipticons makes him all the more crazytown

This was one of the guys I was most looking forward to digging into just for that reason.

Quote

the mechanics of how he transforms, opting for a singular wild click over trying to force it into a full dialed piece was very shrewd.

Necessity being the mother of invention had a hand here. How do you make a walkman into a 5 or 6 click dial? The answer is, ya don't.

Quote

the

. and when you really want it to go down, switch to the boombox (delightfully

) that your allies can move into position and drop the sickest remix in clix

Yes!

Quote : Originally Posted by Hein2208

I suggest this change:

Great suggestion on wording. I'll take them. Thank you.

Quote

This change still allows two copies of Soundwave on the same force to each have their own 5 Cassettes on the sideline. One Soundwave doesn't recognize another Soundwave's Cassettes as Cassettes, when counting them or looking for them.

Genius. I guess I can drop the unique ring now

Quote

2. Giving PROTECTED for a single action: There's no problem here, but I was surprised that it works, so I wanted to go through the sequence of events, because I find it interesting. As far as I can tell, this is how it would unfold:

A friendly character is targeted by, let's say, Outwit.
Soundwave does his thing, and rolls, let's say, a 6.
The character gains "PROTECTED: Outwit".
The character has already been targeted, so Outwit should proceed as normal.
The opponent chooses a power, and Outwit takes effect.
"PROTECTED: Outwit" causes Outwit's duration to expire immediately, ending the effect.
The action resolves, and then the character loses "PROTECTED: Outwit".
The result is that the enemy has effectively wasted that use of Outwit this turn.

I had come to the same conclusion, but for the wrong reasons. I'm glad it works as I'd hoped. I felt like limiting it to the action would keep the cost down, as opposed to giving just blanket protection for the turn or making the dial even wordier than it already is.

06/28/2019, 19:16

#49

Hein2208

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Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

First off, thank you guys for the quality feedback. I know I say this a lot, but it really does mean a great deal to me that you take the time to respond..

You're welcome!
I actually enjoy looking into rules-stuff like this. Sometimes, it's like trying to work out a logic puzzle.

I'm also glad Baron Impossible is here to tell you how awesome your designs are. It provides a nice balance to my posts, and he hasn't said anything I disagree with yet.

Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

Genius. I guess I can drop the unique ring now

I hadn't even noticed that

Oh well, it worked out.

Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

I just noticed that I forgot to account for Probability Control, which doesn't use durations. If I'm right that the targeting goes through, then there's nothing to stop PC.
I think changing the wording to "When... would target a friendly character..." will fix it. That should change the timing, so they gain "PROTECTED" before the opponent gets a chance to actually target them. I also don't think the opponent gets to choose a new target in the case of Outwit and Perplex, since Shape Change explicitly allows an opponent to switch targets. If that was how it normally worked, there'd be no reason to mention it in SC. Since the opponent tries to choose a target that can't be targeted, the power won't do anything.
With any version of the wording, PC immunity will last the entire attack, so if you manage to get it, no one (including your own guys) can reroll that particular attack with PC. Of course, you probably won't activate Soundwave's effect unless you're happy with the current dice roll, so that shouldn't be an issue.

06/28/2019, 20:20

#50

Baron Impossible

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love the gif, reno. there's no way I could field this piece without an autotuned voice modulator every time I announced my actions

Quote : Originally Posted by Hein2208

felix & oscar or bing & bowie?

I also appreciate the rule-ese, it's interesting to see you navigate through the unintentional intricacies of custom designs like the purple-hat of the creative corner

Current Project: POWERBOMB
All My Sets

06/30/2019, 13:23

#51

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Uncommon #021 Buzzsaw
Team: Decepticons
Range: 4
Points: 50/25
Keywords: Decepticon, Soundwave's Minion, Animal, Robot

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TRANSFORM: Cassette: When Buzzsaw begins the game on click 11, it is considered 10 points for all game effects (including victory points). Protected: Pulse Wave.

A Sculptor: POWER: , halve speed. Move.

Like Working On A Masterpiece: Charge. When Buzzsaw hits a character that has with a close attack, after resolutions he can use Sidestep, breaking away automatically.

CARVE UP ANY OPPONENT (Charge)
AGILE IN FLIGHT (Sidestep)
MORTAR CANNONS (Energy Explosion)
DIAMOND HARD, MICRO-SERRATED BEAK (Blades/Claws/Fangs)
ROBOT IN DISGUISE (Toughness)
DEFLECTION (Energy Shield/Deflection)
SOPHISTICATED, YET CRUEL (Invulnerability)
MY BITE IS WORSE THAN MY BARK (Exploit Weakness)
TWIN BLAST (Range Combat Expert)

Last edited by Renokhan; 07/02/2019 at 16:41..

06/30/2019, 16:20

#52

Baron Impossible

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Here's what I love about this dial. With three different (distinctly different without overlap from multiple starting lines) what's to field it the same set of powers remixed and shuffled, this truly feels like a mixtape in the coolest, most meta way.

In love that simply changing up the speed and defense powers gives a vastly different play experience. I love the power in the click 11 call-in repping it having a stronger showing with synergy with soundwave without requiring a bff ability to tell the tale. And the

sp navigates the implementation of the swoop effect of a divebomb so well that hawkman must be jealous

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06/30/2019, 23:55

#53

Hein2208

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Ah, that's how you're implementing the cassettes. Cool!

There's some inconsistency in what you're calling the "Soundwave's Minions" keyword. In all three places you've used it so far (two of Soundwave's traits, and on Buzzkill) you've written it differently each time.

I'm not sure how Buzzsaw would be scored, if Soundwave brings it in from the sideline, since it's not on either starting line. Probably 50 points, since that's the first starting line. You should probably give the Cassettes a trait that says something like "When [Cassette] begins the game on click 11 it is considered X points for all game effects (including victory points). Protected: Pulse Wave", so there's no confusion. This wouldn't apply to Cassettes that join the sideline later, only those that start out on the sideline through Soundwave's trait. This also let's you give them a unique minion-cost, if you want.

Last edited by Hein2208; 07/01/2019 at 00:12..

07/01/2019, 02:12

#54

Renokhan

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Quote : Originally Posted by Hein2208

I just noticed that I forgot to account for Probability Control, which doesn't use durations.

Changed the wording on the power to "...The friendly character can't be targeted with the chosen power by the opposing player this turn."

Quote : Originally Posted by Baron Impossible

love the gif, reno. there's no way I could field this piece without an autotuned voice modulator every time I announced my actions

That would almost be a must.

Quote

I also appreciate the rule-ese, it's interesting to see you navigate through the unintentional intricacies of custom designs like the purple-hat of the creative corner

I love the critique and rules advisement. Hein's understanding of the rules far surpasses mine own. It's good to have someone checking my work.

Quote : Originally Posted by Baron Impossible

sp navigates the implementation of the swoop effect of a divebomb so well that hawkman must be jealous

I originally had the side A / Side B idea to go with the tape motif, but when I decided on the 5 pts cost click #11, I was afraid it would blow the motif. I'm glad it still came across somewhat.

If only Hawkman had the

special power when he went after that alligator.

Just kidding, I cribbed it from Hawkman's awesome (imo) JLTW 115 pts version.

Quote : Originally Posted by Hein2208

There's some inconsistency in what you're calling the "Soundwave's Minions" keyword. In all three places you've used it so far (two of Soundwave's traits, and on Buzzkill) you've written it differently each time.

Good call. Fixed.

Quote

I'm not sure how Buzzsaw would be scored, if Soundwave brings it in from the sideline, since it's not on either starting line. Probably 50 points, since that's the first starting line. You should probably give the Cassettes a trait that says something like "When [Cassette] begins the game on click 11 it is considered X points for all game effects (including victory points). Protected: Pulse Wave", so there's no confusion. This wouldn't apply to Cassettes that join the sideline later, only those that start out on the sideline through Soundwave's trait. This also let's you give them a unique minion-cost, if you want.

Good point. I think what you've suggested is perfect. Keeping Cassettes that join your sideline later at their original cost is a must.

Thanks for rockin'*out the feedback, again. As always, greatly appreciated.

*Lowkey pun.** **nested pun for the win.

07/01/2019, 16:41

#55

Renokhan

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The Controversy

Design Notes: Frenzy's portrayal varies greatly from his comic to his cartoon incarnations, even to the point of being a different color (the animators of the cartoon famously switched Frenzy and Rumble's color scheme). To that end, I have tried to represent both versions: his comic version on the 50 pts dial and his cartoon version on the 25 pts starting line.

Uncommon #023 Frenzy
Team: Decepticons
Range: 0
Points: 50/25
Keywords: Decepticon, Soundwave's Minion, Robot

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TRANSFORM: Cassette: When Frenzy begins the game on click 11, it is considered 10 points for all game effects (including victory points). Protected: Pulse Wave.

Detachable Guns On Back: FREE: Generate a #023s Gun. // FREE: Unequip #023s Gun.

Spinning Drum-like Device: Poison. When Frenzy uses Poison, adjacent opposing characters with the Robot keyword can't use Toughness to reduce the damage.

High-Pitched Grinding Noise: Giant Reach:2. Incapacitate. When Frenzy uses Incapacitate, he may instead target all adjacent opposing characters, and after resolutions, Frenzy has Battle Fury until he clears action tokens.

IN A FRENZY (Charge)
CRAVES ONLY FEAR AND DISTRUCTION (Sidestep)
MANIC ATTACKS (Flurry)
SOW PANIC... (Quake)
...AND SURRENDER WILL BLOOM (Super Strength)
ROBOT IN DISGUISE (Toughness)
HARD TO GET CLOSE TO (Combat Reflexes)
I'M NOT BUILT FOR GEEK WORK (Invulnerability)
DISTRUPT ELECTIONICS (Perplex)
PILEDRIVER ARMS (Close Combat Expert)

#023s Gun (Light Object)
EQUIP: ANY
UNEQUIP: KO
EFFECT: RANGE: Make a range attack with a range of 4. Damage dealt from this attack can't be reduced below 1. // While equipped, this character can not use its damage powers displayed on its dial.

Frenzy's sonic power as represented in the comics

Frenzy as represented in the cartoon

Last edited by Renokhan; 07/02/2019 at 22:53..

07/01/2019, 17:18

#56

Baron Impossible

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50pter more geared to crowd control. the 25er likes to bully a single target. while there's a distinction, the two have lots of similarities. what a wild idea to present both takes on the guy in the same dial

Current Project: POWERBOMB
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07/01/2019, 18:58

#57

Hein2208

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Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

Changed the wording on the power to "...The friendly character can't be targeted with the chosen power by the opposing player this turn."

Well, that certainly simplifies things. I see you added "would", as well, so the timing should work fine now.

Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

Thanks for rockin'*out the feedback, again. As always, greatly appreciated.

*Lowkey pun.** **nested pun for the win.

Don't mention it. I didn't notice your puns until I quoted your message (revealing the white text), but I like them. I think puns are funny.

Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

Way to avoid the controversy

FIRRIB!

Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

High-Pitched Grinding Noise: Giant Reach:2. Incapacitate. When Frenzy uses Incapacitate, he may instead target all adjacent opposing characters, and after resolutions, Frenzy has Battle Fury until he clears action tokens.

It seems intentional, but just in case it isn't, I'll point out that this mega-Incap is compatible with Giant Reach in the same way that Quake is. Frenzy's Incap can target all opposing characters within 2 squares and line of fire with one attack.

Quote : Originally Posted by Renokhan

#023s Gun (Light Object)
[...]
EFFECT: This character may make Basic RANGE Actions that can't be reduced below 1 with range value of 4. While equipped, this character can not use its damage powers.

This isn't really worded properly. Most notably you don't mention damage anywhere, even though you talk about reducing.
Is there a reason why you've tied the effect the the Basic RANGE Action? Something like this would work the same way:

"EFFECT:
RANGE: Range value 4. Make a range attack. Damage taken from this attack can't be reduced below 1. //
While equipped, this character can not use damage powers."

I also removed "its" from the last sentence. Unless you wanted to specify powers on the dial, it shouldn't be necessary. Basically, if a character has the Gun equipped, and they gain a damage power from some other game element, should the character be able to use the damage power or not? I'm guessing not.

07/01/2019, 22:58

#58

Renokhan

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Quote : Originally Posted by Baron Impossible

I was torn between which version to include. I felt like Frenzy was more represented in the comics while Rumble stole the show in the cartoon. I decided I'd just do both on the split. Worked out well I think.

Quote : Originally Posted by Hein2208

Way to avoid the controversy

FIRRIB!

I mean I'm FIBRIR camp, but the cartoon is so iconic.

Quote

Exactly.

Quote

I added the reducing part last second and just squeezed it in there. I corrected the power. Also, I was just wanting to limit the powers in the damage slot, so I'll keep the wording.

Awesome again guys. Muchas gracias.

07/02/2019, 03:49

#59

Renokhan

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Common #015 Laserbeak
Team: Decepticons
Range: 6
Points: 50/25
Keywords: Decepticons, Soundwave's Minion, Animal, Robot, Spy

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TRANSFORM: Cassette: When Laserbeak begins the game on click 11, it is considered 10 points for all game effects (including victory points). Protected: Pulse Wave.

Independent Targetable Cannon: When Laserbeak starts the game, give Laserbeak two Cannon tokens. // Laserbeak has an additional for each Cannon token. When Laserbeak has no Cannon tokens, damage -1. // POWER: Remove a Cannon token and generate a Cannon bystander. // POWER: Remove an adjacent Cannon bystander from the game and give Laserbeak a Cannon token.

Spy Cameras: FREE: Until the end of your turn, opposing character within range and line of fire do not modify defense +1 from hindered lines of fire.

SADISTIC PLEASURE IN HUNTING PREY (Running Shot)
SPY ON AUTOBOT (Stealth)
EXTREME PRECISION WITH LASERS (Precision Strike)
EVASIVE FLIER (Super Senses)
ROBOT IN DISGUISE (Toughness)
BRAVERY OF BEING AT RANGE (Energy Shield/Deflection)
LASERBEAK, ATTACK! (Invulnerability)
THE ONLY POINT I LIKE IN AUTOBOTS: MELTING POINT (Range Combat Expert)

#015bt Bystander Cannon
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 5

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Independent Targeting: AUTONOMOUS

Last edited by Renokhan; 07/02/2019 at 22:52..

07/02/2019, 11:02

#60

Baron Impossible

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I always remember him spying on the team and flying back with reconnaissance. so I love that the 25pter is filling that role. I could see some scoffing at the utility of nerfing hindering defense, but that can be a big difference, especially in a set that's not stealth heavy, but is definitely range heavy. and since it's an area nerf not singular targeted, I appreciate the toned down effect.

before I get to the rest of the dial, let's all pause and appreciate the rce flavor

I enjoy this run & gun approach, especially with the extra

s to make it a harasser. the cool bit though is plopping down the cannons for extra fire, 'cause i'm now imagining a nested Russian doll inception thing when soundwave pops a cassette that pops its own pogs

the "wait, can you do that?!?" expression on your opponent's face

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