this depends on the build. The build i used did not main horus lv 4 at all. But when the match up was against monarchs or other conservative decks i sided in two of them. i run three enemy controller and book of moon, more than enough to take care of anything thats played. oh and mirror force. during the tourny i had two face down monsters. summoned horus lv 4 and attacked. he mirror forced horus lv4. He was so scared that he started playing to defensive.
that allowed me to drop king dragun and horus lv 6 knowing i had nothing to fear since he used mirror. he would have torrential if he had it when i summoned horus lv 4. then i would wait for royal decree.

Point is lv 4 is better game two when your oppenent knows what your trying to do it leads them into making bad moves and playing defense. thats when u take advantage. if i known that sooner instead of round 4 i would have top 8 easy most likely would have won since top 8 was all machine beat down. my side cost me two games in the first three rounds:(

In response to paragraph one:

- Treeborn
- Malicious
- Call
- Possibly the Fearmonger you ran over
- Cyber Dragon
- Snipe Hunter
- Exiled Force
- DDWL


They arent really out of options, you know. In fact, Brain - Soul - Snatch happen to be the contingency backup for the ones I mentioned above. So the main problems aren't patched up.

In response to paragraph two:

- Card Trooper
- Stratos
- (all of Paragraph One as stepping stone to Monarch in hand or straight removal)

I think Ive mentioned more than 80% of their monster lineup in the list here. My point? Horus 4 is really bad. Horus 6 would have been an EXCELLENT card if it were 2400. But as is ... its just a good card. Horus 8 is beastly. With a short response time between 6 and 8, you can lock your opponent up real good.

Unlike 4, leading into a 6. Fair game for removal (monster-wise) now. Or straight beats. Cuz they know you dont have Saks. You have Decrees instead.

Two points :
- My remarks to LV4 being decent now as opposed to junk before all relate to the prevalence of Brain Control, snatch and soul excgange around now. Not just as trib fodder, but as aggro tech. Doesn't mean he'll always pay off, it does mean he's shielded from the most broken cards of the moment.

- Everything you listed there for paragraph one applies for LV6 into LV8 as well. So it doesn't really make a point as to not running LV4. LV8 is equally vulberable to monarchs, snipes, DDWL etc. If you wanted to make this a solid argument, the argument should not be not to run LV4, you should have just made it an argument not to run Horus ...

Actually .... tributing for the 6 to hit what you wanted to kill with 4 means you get lv8.

The Spells you are worried about are gone. The big hitters can run it over. And since you plan to protect it with Ragnarok / Decree ... most of the afformentioned aren't even a problem anymore.

Decree lock means you NEED a monster to take out lv8. Not attacking. No Traps, No Spells.

Horus 6 can be run over by the numerous 2400 line up most decks pack. And conveniently, you dont pack a solution for it.

Point? Leaving a 6 on the field is actually a very vulnerable position to leave it in. It can still get steam rolled, and now you are no closer to having 8 in play than you were initially.

4-6-8 = 2 turns = enough time for plan
6-8= 0 turns = quick problem. needs quick solution NOW.

I find the 3 enemy controllers, 2 shrinks, and book of moon that I run a very convenient solution to 2400 attackers trying to run over lv 6.

Im sure you can name 1001 cards to waste when you can simply just wait 1 turn, tribute and attack.

Yeah, you are right. Wasting a shrink is much worse than wasting a tribute that could be attacking alongside horus ...:rolleyes:

And what if you dont draw horus lv 6. Then you cant wait one turn tribute because hes not in your hand.

Horus lv 4 is essentially 2 extra copies of horus lv 6. I don't care if you run 3 lv 6, you will not always draw him. Running 2 lv 4's puts 2 more cards in your deck which get lv 6 to the field.

Another thing is you stil persist that lv 4 is going to get "run over" by other monsters. he won't, he gets summoned, he attacks, he lvs up. If you drop lv 4 on the field without a target you deserve to get run over by cyber dragon.

As for horus 6, hes also more resilient than you give him credit for. hes immune to all spells. So no vortex, smashing, snatch, brain, econ, book etc etc.

hes 2300 attack, which makes him bigger than every non-tribute monster in the game.

and while I can name "1001" cards that I can have you'll notice I didn't name 1001 cards. i named 6 (3 econ, 2 shrink, 1 book) which are the exact same number of quick plays I run in the deck.

Now I don't foolishly assume I'll always have one of those down. Sometimes I will (shrinking raiza to get lv 8 is great), sometimes I won't but the opponent won't have an answer to lv 6, and sometimes I wont and the opponent will punish me for it. But its a risk I'm willing to take to have 2 more possible ways to get horus lv 8 out on the field.

I don't know how much experience you have with horus. but if you want to build a decent horus deck you must have options. Because just running 3 lv 6's is not enough. There are loads of games where I never draw a lv 6, but 9 out of 10 matches I wind up getting him out on the field through a number of different ways.

Also having a horus lv 6 in your grave is not so bad either. Sure its "one less horus in your deck" but its also one horus in the grave, which means premature or call = lv 8. Which is definitely a good thing.

okay guys here is the deck i ran and went 6-2

total control 41

monsters 20

2x horus lv 8
3x horus lv 6
2x cyber dragon
2x lord of d
2x the dark hex-sealed fusion
2x mystic tomato
2x masked dragon
2x exploder dragon
1x divine dragon R.
1x sangan
1x morphing jar

spells 16

1x book of moon
3x enemy controller
3x dragon's mirror
1x scapegoat
2x brain control
1x premature burial
1x snatch steal
1x MST
1x heavy storm
1x future fusion
1x swords of revealing light

traps 5

3x royal decree
1x mirror force
1x call of the haunted

fusion
2x cyber twin
3x FHD
3X king dragun

so as of now i have 5 ways to protect my horus and my monsters from attacks.
econ, book and mirror force do that job real good. royal decree stops my monsters from getting destroyed. i have two built in monster removal in exploder dragon. hell it's great 141 and food for FHD. Swords gives me time to get my lock and i get to see WTH i going to run into with horus lv8. scapegaot does the same also. If that was not enough defence i also run 2 brain control and snatch and save them for monarchs. so thats 10 ways to remove threats and 2 stall cards just in case. i also protect myself with royal. when u lock an opponents traps u stop everything that protects them horus says no to spells so no book, brain or soul can save them. so they either take a hit or get ready for useless spells in hand. no my deck has a total of 5 searchers. 1 gets removal other gets me a piece for king dragun. so the opponent has to pick there poison so to speak. it the best horus deck i ever built and hope to take it far. it can take any build this format has to offer and dominates against rouge decks. Also laughs in the face of gadgets.

I have a question, why haven't you guys considered using Fusillier Dragon the Dual Mode beast and Metamorphosis to bring out King Dragun? Just play with 3 Fusilliar and 2 Meta along with ur other pieces and there you go.

it's not that we have not considered it. it's just to hard to do and fusillier can't be search out neither can meta. it leads to bad hands i tried the build once. it didn't work. the fastest way is dark hex and either lord of d or divine dragon. and as a bonus if i ever top deck dragon mirror i have food for it afterward.

Indeed, Dark hex and divine dragon into dragun already gives you three cards to remove to summon a FHD. If you main or side return then you can return Dark hex and Divine dragon and sak them for another King Dragun to protect FHD or horus, and avoid that nasty downside to return that sends your monsters back RFG at the end of the turn.

yeah thats a pretty cool way to summon king dragun and u go do it again if u have dragon's mirror.

Yeah, my trap line-up for horus was always 3x Decree and 1x RftDD for that reason. It was just too good to pass up.