@ KhanSlayer:

Let's put your concept to the numbers:

Using:

ROTS Hellion 114
+Galedon Graduate 8
+ Inferno 26
______________
148
x2
_____
296 for 2 Mechs
+
261 for Duke+Inese Lassonde
_____

557

In a 600 Point Game, you're only looking at 43 points of support.

That being said, It's likely only marginally usefull to use Duke in this set-up, seeing as if you hit with him, the 5 (10) dammage they'll be taking will absolutely demolish them anyway (the extra 2 heat won't mean much)

Yet again, Trev (or was it Will) actually brought up the idea of an inferno swarm back in the "AOD is fresh and new" days, and It could be potentially , but the 296 point cost for 2 of 'em makes it better suited for 600.

Instead of using Duke, I'd probably suggest:

2x ROTS Hellion+Galedon Graduate+Inferno=296

8x LI ATV's 96

LI Garrot 30
>ROTS Kelswa 96

ROTS/LI Sit Alliance 40

LI Antat 23
>ROTS Centar BA 19

600

Fairly order intensive, but one can easily overpower a bigger mech (and prey their support doesn't kill ya)

I wouldn't call this top-teir, but it might not be too bad (and would be moderately fun to play)

Mid :)

Thanks Kotch.
I know i came off negative, but the flaming i received for it? wow.
I did not think my post was too far off topic, considering most of what i asked regarded the game as it stands now. I figured this was a good place to post it because so many armies are submitted here, that most people would have a good idea of what was going on in the game.
I am not determined to dislike MW as Trevor seems to think, i still read the novels, i still build armies, i still play Mechassault, and almost everything else MW, i am just as involved with MW as i was before i quit going to tournaments. But since i have been out of the loop i thought i would ask the premier army building thread what it thought of the game right now. I also had no idea what others thought of MW as it stands.

So i am sorry if most people here took my thread as flaming on MW in general. Yes, i expressed my discontent with the game when i left and most people took that too personaly, like i was offending them because they still play or something like that.

My questions were not aimed in sarcasm that the game could never work. They were aimed to see what was going on in the tournament scene. But i have said my point and will say no more.

Now i had another question.
I heard before the release of FiP that the Steel Wolves were going to have a grand alliance with SH is this true?

Also, between House Steiner and Stormhammers how do these units work with each other? It has been something i have never quite been clear on.
Together do they make faction purity? Can they move in formation, fire formation, etc?

Lastly, i had some thoughts for an army:
SH Hellstar
-Enrico F

R10 ICV
-3 Twd Gauss Rifle

Danai

Minigun

Hellstar is the main hitter, with very nice stats(ignoring the heat dial).
The Twd Gauss can provide fire support, or hit a target by themselves.
The Danai is there to help protect the Hellstar when it has to cool off.
The minigun is filler and protects the Danai

Thoughts?
Thanks
Kahnwolf

Here's what I'm considering for a Black Rose Army

Shrike Black Rose
Hazen
AA Targetting
JF Saxon APC
JF Towed Thunder Launcher
JF Slyph Battle Armor
JF Gnome Battle Amor x3

I choose AA Targetting over some of the other gear available for two reasons. First to really have a good shot at cracking Black Rose formations and artillery will be key. To limit those options. AA Targetting makes the popular Garrots stay at NOE and vunerable to MDFA and making it hard to get an clear shot with blocking terrain in place. The other is cost, only Camo and Lock On Targetting are cheaper but this one is useful and if there aren't any VTOLs to contend with then its only 13 points to make up in kills. The Saxon/TTL makes a cheap counter battery option, a way to keep turtles honest and a way to push oppossing fatties around. The Slyph is your harrasser/VC3 go to guy. The Gnomes are there to help keep barnacles away from the Rose's legs and late game capture threat with the IT it picks up later in their dial.

I stated it before, When you use a monster like this players will ussualy ignore the big bad monster. They will kill your support and leave it at that.

You are playing faction pure is it a factiob pure enviroment ? Or you prefer to be fluffy ?

That means that you will face more effcient armies as you lack the ability to win VC3. If your opponent just kills of your support scores VC 3 and runs away from your big scary mech you will find that winning is hard.

My critism is based on playing bigger tournements to win.

To make the win games you might consider using BR sprint with grapple inf. that way you might hit a high point value target.

If it is a faction pure thingie whole different story, but then you will find that BR faction pride is you biggest threat.

good luck
Elite130

Thanks for calling this the premier building thread :cool:

The tournement scne lives at least over here, I wont bore you with details the only way to find out is to start playing again. I do belief it will be better considering that prizes will not be in the box again, if there are unique prizes out there people tend
to try harder to get the rare ones.

I know of a SA not a GA, but this is a rules thingie not my strong point ;)

Yes, consider them 1 faction to make it easy.

First ignore the heat dial ? You are nuts :cheeky: You better make sre you understand the risk your taking here a cooler mech will hound you and the danai will buy you 1 turn at most. It's best feature is the def 23 + cammo, however expect TTL all over the place.

Your Inf. drop is good but limited in range, use a Merc Zahn for better range.

You have a hvy slow hitter, people who play the Back Rose will love to play you as they might catch up because of your heat dial.

Your inf. drop is good although if it is SH it is sub par as with others you have IT.

The minigun and the danai are only good to make up a formation on the R10 otherwise they are better called dead meat......

It is a though army I woudnt call it competitive, But some might not know how to handle the big one in hindering.

Good luck
Elite130

@ Khan,

I think (in my little world) that the game is far more fulid now than it used to be.

There are more army archtypes that "stand a chance" now than there were, many of them contain mechs.

Gear, PC's and SItuational Alliances/Faction pride add a lot of diversity, ETC. Planetary conditions are one of the most important of these (IMHO) seeing as they can potentially cripple many army archytypes, including some of the new AOD "Power Types"

ABT your army:

Artillery, MDFA-ers and the Yami's are this army's biggest problems. I'd either go with a Drop+SH ATV's or 2 Arty to support the Hell Star. Personally, I'd rather see the 2x Arty, laregely because of the Serius heat issues on the Hell Star.

I'd consider a SH/HS TTL and a SS Paladin/A4, and/or some other AP arty.

@ Nth

I might consider loos'n that AA gear and the Gnomes in favor of some faster BA support, or Trackbikes.

As-Is you have nothing capable of basing things in Hindering, Which is bad.

Alternatively, instead of AA, you COULD take EC, which will reduce the threat from Chichato/Gabe or Yami...2 things that the Black Rose fears to a certain extent.

That being said, I'm not wholely convinced of BR's usefullness, as she costs so much. Instead, I'd almost rather have a GoshHawk+a drop or 2.

mid :)

To begin with, this 600 point army has the weakness Elite mentioned up-thread: an expensive 'mech. I'm sure variants of this are very common, but here it is anyway:
BR Sprint (32) + BR TGR (19) + 4 BR ATVs (48) = 99
BR Sprint (32) + BR TGR (19) + 3 BR ATVs (36) = 87
Merc Zahn (30) + 3 Davion Towed Thunders (75) = 105
"Black Rose" Shrike (253) + Hazen (46) + Lock-on Targeting (10) = 309
Assuming my math is correct, this is 600 points on the nose.
Obviously, this army has a couple of gimmicks: the usual 15 IT, 3 damage TGR+ATV combo; and a 13 IT, 3 damage combo... neither of which might survive to take their shot... but if they do it'll cripple or destroy something important in an opponent's army.
Further, this army has to hope that the opponent will be too busy mopping up the forward elements of the army for a couple of turns to get the Thunder launchers into range, but on the 2nd or 3rd turn these pieces should be putting down 2-damage markers most anywhere on the board other than the corners.
The Shrike is dangerous, especially with Hazen's ability and Lock-On targeting. A 14 AV, 5 damage hit for free will not be fun if an opposing 'mech misses a DFA or Charge (of course, that's on the first click). Also, I would want to use the Shrike offensively... she is a JF DFAer, of course. She ought to be able to clean up anything other than infantry that's left of an opposing army.
What am I doing wrong?

The new thread's on FIRE!

(And before I start my reviews, let me just say that the new White Stripes album is seriously good. Seriously.)

This made me laugh out loud, mainly because I basically did this at last year's Nationals. I made a huge mistake in the Sealed portion in one game, and it basically cost me the chance to go 5-0 since I spent the whole rest of the day thinking about it.

Kotch and Elite pretty much covered all my points on this'n. If you really want an Assault-Class MDFA'er, any of the Shrikes will be better than the PHXs, since they're geared for it. I actually like Ichiba Pryde best, because her Hardened Armor is terribly useful in this day of Thunder Launchers and Paladins.

I agree that things had started to stagnate pre-AoD, but I guess I have a hard time being too sympathetic to that viewpoint, mainly because I'm the guy in my local area that introduces those off-the-wall armies to shake things up (when I get a chance). I've always maintained that the way to counter powerful tactics is with counter-tactics. You run the counter to something enough, you'll stop seeing the offending tactic.

Good army, well-made, effective. You hit the nail on the head when you allude to the fact that the game has passed this army by a bit. If you were to run this at US Nats, more than one of your games would come down to the Initiative roll, just to see whose Fenrir-drop(s) can obliterate a Sprint/Garrot/Arrow first (as Pleugim already mentioned). Also, TTLs will really give this one problems.

I know that I don't want MY games at Nationals to come down to an Initiative roll, which is why I likely wouldn't run something like this.

I actually prefer the HS Hellstar out of all of 'em... A high damage curve, that one has, and at least a manageable heat dial. Also... scrap the Danai. Towed Thunder Launchers will prove infinitely more effective at protecting your 'Mech while it cools off.

I agree with Elite's analysis. If you decide you wanna stay faction pure, a Saxon-M Fa Shih drop would benefit you, as would a gaggle of TrackBikes. Untransported infantry with speed <10 is basically useless these days, as we discussed in the previous thread. The TrackBikes are reasonably inexpensive for what they do, and between them and a couple Sylphs, you'll have enough speed to lock up the board while you maneuver Black Rose into position.

The problem with Rose is that you must be thinking all offense, all the time. She's not a good enough defensive piece for you to let your opponent come to you. And if you wanna go all-offense, a Jade Hawk-Goshawk or Goshawk-Goshawk combo would probably do you better efficiency-wise, as has already been covered.

Bigger isn't always better, unless bigger is superb defensively.

Wow, Black Rose is popular.

You aren't doing anything wrong, this is a good setup for a Black Rose army. I will offer up some critiques, though.

The SH TTLs are probably going to be more beneficial to your army than the HD ones... you want the ability to vex armies that are more order-efficient than yours are, and two super-accurate pogs will pull that off. As for the formation TGR-drops... meh. With the Assault 'Mech in play, your games are gonna take place at midfield. You want something more able to support your 'Mech when it hits the middle of the board. HL Sniper Teams come to mind, among other things.

Still, the army as it stands will work against a lot of different armies, so kudos on that. Play it sometime and let us know how it goes.

For starters, Trev, I regularly disagree with your opinions but I always respect your class. When it comes to flaming the #### out of some dude for a relatively minor and brief post and wasting all of our time, you never disappoint. Seriously, just accept the fact that a substantial portion of the community has serious issues with the direction the game is being taken and leave it at that instead of getting up on your holier-than-thou soapbox every freakin' time. As people have said, this thread is supposed to be about reviewing armies, not worshipping WK and complying fully with Trevor's personal beliefs about what is and is not an appropriate comment (can't say "broken", musn't impugn WK or either Bonilla, etc.). Apparently your willingness to post ideas is limited because you're "protecting" your "secrets" for Nats, but your willingness to #### on people is as boundless as ever. I've half a mind to drive up to Portland again and teach you another painful lesson in humility.

@all

If a Sprint drop of an Oni or a TGR is a good idea, it can't be bad to trade two to four of your Liao ATVs for the BR Variant. It slightly weakens your ATV support (possibly VERY slightly, depending on how many ATVs you had and how many you're swapping) but gives you several more options for first striking, and as we're all aware the best way to win a game is to win before your opponent gets to act.

@Kotch

I must be in the minority here but I don't like it at all. For starters, the DF Garrot is largely dead because of the CJF Fenrir drop. An opponent fielding a single Sprint +JF Fenrir drop plus high-powered combined arms will have a substantial edge on you: he goes first he kills the Garrot w/the Kelswa inside and puts the game away, you go first your ability to brutalize his army (assuming his 3-caps are Merc Zahns) is much more limited. Start with the Kelswa outside the Garrot and he need only kill the Garrot to effectively neutralize the Kelswa all game (too slow and an ATV can get inside its min and so on). Simply put, it is too dangerous to put anything bigger than a SH Aesir inside a DF Garrot, IMHO. All-out first strike will get you as well.

I also don't like the SS Arrow IV as your only artillery piece, partly because I just don't think too highly of one-artillery builds (bring 2+, or bring none, is my philosophy) and partly because the SS Arrow IV is similarly quite vulnerable to the JF Fenrir drop and also because you just don't have a good way to stop your opponent from basing it immediately with an ATV.

@Khanwolf

"Faction purity" is not a meaningful game concept per se. A battleforce containing only HS and SH units does qualify for the lower point cost for Steiner pride but not for SH pride. DItto with HD and SS. The grand alliance you speak of is between the SW and HS, not the SW and the SH; I posed the question months ago about what the relationship is between SW and SH but predictably never got a clarification from WK. Yes, if two factions have a Grand or House alliance with each other they may make formations with one another, although nobody knows how this applies to the HS/SH/SW issue. All of the factions which are legal for a SA battleforce may create formations with each other.

Whether or not a battleforce containing a faction and its House ally is faction pure depends on the context. For puropses of qualifying for a local requirement, it's up to your BM. For purposes of a Pride card, it depends on the Pride card. For purposes of a WK Storyline requirement, no. For purposes of bragging rights, generally yes. A battleforce containing only a faction and its Grand ally is not faction pure in any sense but may still be considered "fluff pure" for puropses of bragging rights.

@nthcircle

I don't like AA Targeting on anything, really. It's a second-rate gear at best. Camo has great synergy with your jump jets but is SU (and you won't generally want to feed Black Rose clicks); Lock-On Targeting has great synergy with your pilot power and also has some limited use in other situations; No gear saves points to spend on support that you're short on in a Black Rose army; ECM guarantees victory against Yami and Chikako. Personally I think all four of those options are better than AA but what do I know.

A Saxon drop of a TTL is fine but is order-intensive (not such a big problem in this particular army tho). If you're going to run one and only one artillery I like that one pretty well.

A Sylph can't be bad.

I don't like the Gnome formation. It's just too slow. If going JF Pure, use Shamashes or Trackbikes instead. If not, Liao ATVs.

Don't listen to Elite. Black Rose (w/a pilot) is not Shone. Her movement is too high for "kill her support and ignore her" to work.

Here's an army for y'all to chew on.

"Hellfire" - Phoenix Hawk IIC - 208 pts.
>Pilot Card: Trebor Ydek - 59 pts. (52+7-pt. ROTS Recruit)
>Gear Card: Extended Range Ammo - 37 pts.
:^^: (LI) Sniper Team x2 - 44 pts.
:^^: (BR) Scout ATV Squad x3 - 36 pts.
:^^: (LI) Scout ATV Squad x3 - 36 pts.
Situational Alliance Card: Liao-Republic of the Sphere - 30 pts.
===========================================
TOTAL: 450 pts.

Oh, look! I can use BR ATVs to formation-fire into the DZ first turn with a 13 attack for 6 damage! Only Sprint-dropped infantry can damage me before I have a chance to shoot at it!

Sure, it's got to work around terrain placement and PCs, but you bet you'll catch someone off-guard with this.

Having been something of a Spirit Cat scrub for some time, I took my first few steps into a brave new world recently, and played a SC/HL Situational Alliance army.

It did pretty well, but I still have my reservations (being down 30 points on VC2 is primary in these).

How well do you think an alliance army can do in a Nationals setting, particularly the SC/HL alliance, and what units would you take?

Hello, Mr. Kettle? Hi, this is Mr. Pot! You're black!


Okay, let's move away from hijacking this thread anymore, alright?

Hey guys, I have a 600 point CJF army with Black Rose for you to take a look at. I had speed in mind while I was building it. PCs are Urban and Perfect Day (I've got Mountain Range as well incase we play more than three rounds.)

“Black Rose” – Shrike (253)
Malvina Hazen (46)
Electronic Camouflage (22)

Hadur Fast Support Vehicle (50)

2x Saxon APC (48)
>Fenrir Battle Armor (19)
>Towed Thunder Launcher (23)

2x Shamash Reconnaissance Vehicle (44)

Kite Reconnaissance Vehicle (35)

2x Sylph Battle Armor (60)

I used "Hellfire" the first time I faced Black Rose. I used arty and infantry to force BR to run hot and when my Opponent missed his heat roll. "Hellfire" gave her a 20" education in heat management. "Hellfire" is a quirky niche piece, but when no one is expecting him, he can fill his roll quite well. He may not be top tier, but nobody likes feeling threatened with 6 damage from across the board.

Heres my army so far for the 600 point snakes in the grass storyline. Please help if you can.

Black Rose+Malvina Hazen=299
x1 Clan Jade Falcon Fenrir=19
x1 SSw Paladin defense system=82
x1 SSw towed AA artillery=32
x1 SW Valiant=119
x1 Albion Grad=9
x2 SW Mortar Squads=40

Total is 600 points.