And of course, there's no other explanation than that.

Naturally, I play CJF pure (crippling myself part 1), adhering to local mores (such as no arty here, no tank drop there, one mech here, crippling part 2). I do so with a winning record (including playing CJF pure during FP).

I don't find 'fun' in playing bad armies. I find fun in building good armies despite self-imposed conditions that, frankly, I find ludicrous (no arty? L2P noob). I enjoy solving problems and the problem in MechWarrior is 'how do I win'. So handing me a load of demonstrably inferior pieces and charging me extra for it (outside of the unspoken contract inherant in booster sales) is not going to somehow make me jump for joy. In fact, I'll cheerfully ignore the living daylights out of it, just like I've ignored myriad pieces in years past.

But I will also cheerfully point out the flaws in the declaration 'these are good pieces' when they're not. Since part of my fun is analysis and problem solving, you don't get to stomp on my fun in favor of your fun. So there. ;)

Just wanted to point out Highdancer that you forgot about Trovic (230 points) when saying that the new Gyrfalcons are the most expensive of the Gyrs.

This is just my opinion, but I think Trovic became more playable when the AOD rules went into effect, even without being able to add gear or a pilot, because now he can assault order into Alpha Strike range, thus protecting his lower defense value better. I wouldn't use Trovic as a primary anti-mech unit, but after another unit cracked a mech, I would use Trovic to finish off the mech. Or use Trovic on vehicles. Just my opinion.

Jiyi is priced higher than the current Gyrs. I can't recall what precisely the comment was, but I think I was referring to the pair of AB Gyrs, not the FP triplets (yet). So the 'expensive' is the 185 16 incher.

Actually, now that you mention it, Trovic looks... almost usable when compared. Sure, lousy DV, but it's not like the new ones are all that much better and Trovic packs a much, much better punch. Hmm.

Its not just that these pieces are 'no good'. I can take pieces that aren't much good(AKA Raptor II). In this case, these are supposed to be the pride of Jade Falcon. I was looking forward to seeing pieces that were actually JF in JF armies(instead of playing IS mechs in JF colors for the most part) and at least semi-competative. I really enjoy the look and concept of these mechs, and I'd like them to be the threat they deserve to be. And, even sadder, its not too late(please refer to earlier posts).

I really want to like these pieces, and with a little tweaking, not only can I like them, but so can many others who enjoy playing JF 'mechs.

I suppose I don't consider the integral importance of a high defense because I've always seen defense more as a deterrent then a strategy or tactic. If you provide your opponent the oppurtunity to roll dice, they may very well do it. I've always said "Dice averages die when the dice drop" and "Never assume you're safe." I enjoy playing the Falcons because they challenge me to systematically tear my opponent down. The Falcons do require a few degrees more of careful planning and maneuvering. I will say this. These Battlemechs are not tournament dominators, and maybe not tournament wins. They are round winners, though. There is absolutely no reason why a proper and intelligent offense can not be mounted by any of these Mechs. They can win each battle. given the cautious nature of how you would have to play with these pieces, though, you'd probably just scrape by. Scraping through a 50 minute, even if you win all of them, does not give you the tournament.

Tournament and timed play requires decisive victories, not just routes, even if all the battles are routes. So, I would say fairly that these units are certainly great casaul units. I'd also have to believe that perhaps this may be the design of these Battleforces: Casaul Play. Why? If the competitive pieces are in the boosters, more boosters are opened. I'm not saying this to be conspiratorial, but it makes sense. They'll sell these battleforce sets, but they're very essentially just intended to be window dressing for what may be the so-called casaul player...a player that does, hypothetically, exist.

Fah. You can't give me something that ostensibly packs LB-2Xes (or Ultra/2s, either) and tell me it's the pride of anything. :D

Sorry, but when you give a setup this easy, it just _has_ to be said...

It's not the size of the gun that matters....

(alternately, insert line about "compensation" here...)

And with that, I'll shut up now :)

LOL!
Thanks guys!
I must say that this is one of my favorite threads and you guys help make it so.
Anyway, I tried making my case before Kevin, and as predicted, it failed. I think he was thinking that I was looking for the mechs in the builders set to be equal in power to uniques. In reality, I just wanted them to be equal in power level to nons in boosters.
I suspect you're right Dark Revenant, that the builders sets are actually designed to be at a power level lower than the nons in boosters and that they're primarily for casual play. Well, in my case, thats all I play... I don't have the time to BM and no one else is stepping up to the plate in my area. I still want mechs that can match nons point for point.
Still, it can't be helped now. A few options are available.
1. Don't buy the set at all. I completely understand Highdancer's position on the subject. Still thats just not an option for me. I have been looking for a long time to use configurable JF signature mechs in games, and I won't pass up on the chance, even if they're weaker mechs.
2. So that brings me to option 2. Play em, weaknesses included, and make em the best they can be, and even, dare I say it, attempt to win with them. I actually am starting to see some promising possibilities(especially with the Eyries). Even though it will make it all the harder to play faction pure w em, I'd like to still use them.
So gang, based on the card options out there, what are some of the nastiest combos you can think of for these 'mechs?

Heheh. Look at the Shiro: It seems that LB-2Xs aer exactly what the factions like to put on their totem mechs!

So gang, based on the card options out there, what are some of the nastiest combos you can think of for these 'mechs?[/quote]

As an idea, the EYR-V1 with the warrior pilot and EC is 17 points less than the Vapor Eagle, warrior and EC. A littele less life than the VE, but has higher attacks most of the dial with a little extra speed. The point difference allows for more infantry support, or a faction pride. I can see using this Eyrie as a wingman for the Phoenix Hawk rather than the VE because of the point savings.

I am looking forward to getting this set. We play a lot of fun scenarios when we get to play unrestricted tournaments. These will fit well into a faction pure CJF army.

All of these mechs start with a 10-attack. How many non-unique, non-CJF mechs from Domination have a starting 10-attack? ZERO. These mechs keep their 10-attack for at least 3 clicks (one Gryfalcon has only 2 clicks). When I play Falcon, I play attack, attack, attack; and with the addition of a pilot, I will have a 12-attack on all of these. Also, all these mechs have a vent of 4 and can start from a complete shut-down, which helps if you are an aggressive Falcon.

When I play CJF, I look at the Assault Order capability of the piece. Usually, the piece has a shorter weapons range than other pieces. The piece usually has a longer movement, higher attack value, and better heat management -- meaning it was built for the AO. These mechs all have a decent AO capability.

I am a little disappointed that they did not include a heavy mech in this set. I feel that there are already enough good non-unique light mechs out there.

Ugh, don't remind me. At least, in CBT terms, the Gyrfalcon has some big lasers to make a couple of holes for exploitation by the LB-2Xes; the LRM-10s on the Shiro don't cut it. The Gyrfalcon could maybe get lucky and put some serious hurt on a light; the Shiro can't even do that. ;)

I agree, but I think the primary rationale here was to keep the Falcon totem 'Mechs in circulation when Falcon's Prey is retired (since most everyone seems to concur that they are good sculpts.) One of these days, though, they're going to have to give us a Falcon Jade Hawk...

The second Gyrfalcon has greater potential than I thought. The whole Mech is pretty stable, I mean, 3 clicks of 10 Attack, and keeping 19 Defense in those same clicks is nice to use with +1 DEF pilot, but that this unit still deals 3 damage from 16 inch range, even after receiving a serious blow of damage, is not to be taken lightly. Even so, the Gyrfalcon only get faster as they are being pushed around, thus expanding their Assault range when they need it. We're still talking about an Assault Order of 21 without pilot, and with the Warrior pilot in it, 22 Inch... Comes close to the Shino, no?

Shrikes are a little disappointed in the Defense area. Although they have nice Armor, they still fall victim for Armor Piercing units or high damage-potential units.

The second Eyrie + Warrior pilot with the Faction Pride of Vanguard is wicked. 13-inch movement is enough to make a jump right over a building or forest and Merciless Death from Above that unit.

And now for something completely different...When you join the MW Officers Club they'll let you pay with either a credit card or a money order. Will they allow people those options of purchase for this set? Some people don't have credit cards or just don't want to use them over the internet or would rather just use money orders.

I'll agree that the mechs are poor to mediocre though there are some possibilities and a couple good pilots. The army builders seem to be there to provide access to the totem mechs of your favorite faction at a reasonable cost and they'll be able to stay tournament legal longer than any pieces out of a regular set. They can't make them too powerful because they are from a single faction, are limited supply pieces, and because they potentially will be tournament legal longer than most pieces. If a broken piece happened to get by could you imagine the complaining by other faction players, or new players who didn't have access to the set, and seeing that piece at every tournament for years to come?

I'm looking forward to the Rots set even if it is not full of good mechs or pilots. I'll just be happy for more faction pieces and pilots and if one or two of them are actually playable then bonus.