@ Deadbolt - I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a Tian-Zong, Yu Huang or a Tsi'Tsang in Vanguard. The incidences of LEs using a sculpt that wasn't present in the same set as a non-unique or unique 'Mech are rather low, and in terms of units available in boosters, has always been the realm of the Ultra-Rare, at least to date. I would expect that the Liao Super Rare Lance will have a Vulture Mk IV, a Shen Yi, and then two sculpts already seen in the set - perhaps a Gambit and/or Osiris, with the possibility of Liao getting an additional Centurion certainly being in the realm of possibilities.

i could use DBlizzard in a political analogy and satisfy Godwin's law, but naaaah. instead i'm going to leave you with this...
-----open the link in a new window, then come back here. copy and paste if you have to-----
-----i'm just using it for the music, the greatest song ever-----
http://www.freewebs.com/auntymapuana/dora.htm

I agree. I still haven't read any speculations on how that eBay-guy got his hands on those factory sets. Connections? An inside job? A gift from a deity of his choice?

Oh-boy! <rubs hands together with glee>. This is the kind of thing I live for on realms, the moments that are memorable for the pleasure, the joy, even fleetingly the satorie they produce. And so, it is with relish (and a little mustard) that I say...
You're wrong Nanhold!

Actually, maybe you're right, in that perhaps you haven't actually read the post where I speculate he won them at GAMA (the North American trade show for game retailers); but if you meant there haven't been any speculation on this thread, then
You're wrong Nanhold!


Ah, that *was* fun.

Huh. I made Warbanner happy, and I didn't even plan to do that! I should fail to read his posts more often so that I can make statements which he can invalidate. It just gives him so much pleasure... it's truly compelling.

As if you didn't already have enough incentive not to read my posts...

did someone just type something?? :p

I thought about that, but the appearance of the unique Shen Yi blows the theory. The reason for this is that the Shen Yi isn't a new sculpt but an old one. And yes, while there is a pattern for sculpts to be given at least two versions (unique, LE or nons), faction mechs do not necessarily get the same treatment. For such examples, there is the Enforcer, the Eisenfaust, the Shrikes and the Cave Lion.

There is no guarantee that an Eisenfaust will stay exclusively Steiner in this set, though. It might also be online for an Liao LE version and mech "factionalism" be ####ed.

A unique Liao Osiris isn't likely. There is no precedent of a faction getting both nons and uniques or LEs of the same mech within a set.

The Gambit however, is. Having a unique already, it stands it may have an LE, which would be Liao.

I am also thinking there is a high chance that there is an LE Liao Scourge.

I was considering if a Liao Marauder LE would be possible, but sometimes if a sculpt don't get a unique and LE combination, it would get a unique and tourney prize combination instead, as what happened to the Crabs and Neanderthals, or unique and mailaway, like the Mad Cat 4. I was thinking an Atlas might be possible too. It is crying for another version within the same set, but then it is already getting a tourny prize version. Note however, some new scultps gets as many as 3 uniques, the Solitaires, Novacats, Jade Hawks, among others.

If you follow the new sculpts gets multiple versions theory, you got

Atlas
Mad Cat 4
Marauder
Gambit
Scourge
Eisenfaust
Enforcer (a little less possible)

If you follow the recycle old sculpts theory, then certainly a Tsi Tsang, Tian Zong and a Yu Huang within the realm of possibility.

But then WK can be very unpredictable at times. I won't put it past them to suddenly make up something like a Liao Shadowcat or Wendigo.

I'm sorry, I don't follow your reasoning that somehow the appearance of the Shen Yi as a unique "blows the theory" at all. How does that mean that we'll get an LE that uses a sculpt not seen as a regular unique?

Consider the following: Starting with Firepower onwards, WizKids is giving the bulk of the "Super Rare" 'Mechs to a faction lance, with the remainder all being Gunslingers (when there is a remainder). In the cases of the Enforcer, Eisenfaust, and Shrike, the faction-specific 'Mechs were not being released in a set where their factions got the lance. On the other hand, when the Nova Cats and House Kurita were part of a combined lance (the Muteki Lance), we saw the faction-specific Hitostune Kozo, Wendigo and Shadow Cat all show up as both uniques and super rares, thus setting the precedent for the Shen Yi to be both a unique and a super rare in the same set.

To date, we've never seen a super rare that used a sculpt not seen as a less-rare booster unit. That seems to be solely the providence of mail-aways and convention exclusives.

Nope, there's no guarantee the Eisenfaust will stay exclusively Steiner. Precedent set to date in the AoD-era would seem to indicate that it will remain Steiner-exclusive, though. Just like the Enforcer and the Shrike haven't turned up in factions other than the ones that created them.

Maybe not in the AoD-era, but back in Falcon's Prey, the Republic got both a non-unique Griffin, and an LE Griffin. Nevertheless, I suspect you're right. From Firepower onwards, the Super Rares have always been additional versions of sculpts seen in that set as a unique - not non-uniques.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Gambit as part of the lance, either.

Considering we know there is a super rare Vulture Mk IV, and a super rare Shen Yi is a very high probability, I'd be surprised if they made a third Heavy Class 'Mech for the Liao lance. At least, not if the fourth 'Mech is, indeed, a Gambit, or any other Light 'Mech. I'm guessing we'll see a Medium Class 'Mech instead. A Centurion, to be precise. I'll admit this is my weakest argument. It's mostly based on the usual composition of lances in CBT, but WizKids doesn't always follow that (for that matter, neither does CBT ;) ).

For the Atlas, WizKids said in the chat that it would be appearing in boosters first in Wolf Strike, so you can pretty much rule out a Liao Atlas as part of the lance. As for the others, I still hold to the idea that it would have to be a sculpt seen among the uniques (or possibly the non-uniques) from the same set.

Well, the Atlas is already getting more versions... in Wolf Strike. We've been shown the picture of the big, yellow one already, for example. The Mad Cat 4 has already gotten multiple versions - "Alpha" and "The Heat". We haven't gotten a Marauder, though if you're talking about the Marauder IIC, there are already two versions of that: "Requiem" and "Vindication". The Gambit seems a high probability for the lance, the Scourge has already seen multiple versions (non-unique in Domination, unique in Vanguard), and the Eisenfaust and Enforcer seem to be strong candidates (if not virtual locks) for future Battleforce sets for House Steiner and House Davion respectively.

Well, there's not much of a "theory" about WizKids recycling old sculpts - they've done that often enough. If you're talking about the "theory" that they might recycle an old sculpt only for a super rare, then sure, that's possible. I just don't subscribe to that theory ;)

In the past I wouldn't put it past them, but they've been pretty good about certain 'Mechs never going outside their factions. We've never seen a non-Liao Shen Yi, Tian Zong, Yu Huang or Tsi'Tsang. We've never seen a non-Jade Falcon Shrike, Gyrfalcon or Eyrie (the Jade Hawk was a special exception, noted by website fiction; it's never been a Jade Falcon 'Mech). We've never seen non-Sea Fox Tiburons. We've never seen a non-Kurita Shiro, Rokurokubi or Hitotsune Kozo. And we've never seen a non-Nova Cat Wendigo or Shadow Cat. It seems like WizKids is now trying to establish that newer faction-specific designs have not gone over to other factions. They may change that in the future, but in the short term, I just don't seem them doing so just yet.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree for now, and then wait and see what's in the new set over the next few weeks ;)

And DF got that mace weilding ICE BattleMech, the Storm Raider, as both LE and Unique in FP.

I dont know CNC is getting another TBA ("Thundercat battle armor") They would then have 4 to choose from, but the CBA is insteresting because they just got one in Domination which is already a pretty good infantry piece. Alot of people said it didnt replace the old one, but I think its good in its own right. Maybe this one is a version to that has flamers and 10 movement to finally replace the Dark Age SC CBA. I also wonder how the Anubis will stack up to the other CNC lights.

Smart money says the Gray Death Scout Battle Armor will have Recon, and the Huitzilopotchtli Assault Tank will have the Advanced Anti-Missile SE.

Freetop,

Yes, a lot of faction mechs remain faction exclusive. Your JF and Liao mechs for example. And yes, how many 'faction' mechs didn't really stay faction exclusive.

The Avalance is the big example for this recently. It represents the trio of medium mechs the CNC has concocted, and no less as faction exclusive as a Wendigo. But you got 3 different faction mechs from it in addition to the CNC version.

For that matter, there is the Osiris, the Anubis, the Kodiak, and the Novacat heavy mechs among other examples. There are so many examples of made by does not mean use by. There is always the logic non faction mechs are captured or traded by the factions there in [an example in fiction is Evan Kurst's Tsi-Tsang actually being obtained from defecting Republic forces in Planet Liao]. If WK wanted to, they can always concoct an awkward backstory like they did with the Jade Hawks.

The faction mechs that stayed faction exclusive are those mechs that look so faction special, it does not make sense for them on another faction. The Shiros, Rokus and H. Kozos are good examples and so are the JF mechs, except for the Jade Hawk as a violation of that. But note that those facdtion mechs that don't have that truly distinctive racial look could still end up being in some other faction's hands.

For that reason I don't find it past WK to introduce different faction mechs for Shadowcats, Wendigos, Enforces and even Eisenfaust. Just because we have never seen a non-CNC Shadowcat does not mean we won't. There is a difference what happens in the past tense and on the future tense. Conventional logic would have meant a Liao Avalanche would have the same probability as a Liao or any non CNC Shadowcat. Would I put it past WK to make a non-Liao Tian Zong, Shen Yi or Tsi Tsang in the future? I won't either. The Yu Huang looks strongly racially specific but the other three mechs aren't.

With regards to the Shen Yi. I would regard that as an old sculpt, not a new one. Economics won't be the same. WK is trying to maximize their investment on a new sculpt, which is why you got different versions to obtain some production volume. With the Shen Yi, they're probably trying to get more return of investment out of an old sculpt. And yes, it does make an LE version probable for that reason. But then, the same reasoning can apply for the Yu Huang, Tian Zongs and Tsi Tsangs which already do exist. Unless WK decides to put the last three into a battleset.

Still as you mentioned, since they already started a production line with the Shen Yi mold, it would be convenient to make an LE out of it.

The same reasoning applies to the Centurion, but will WK make another Liao Shieldturion? Or maybe they should give the shield a rest and make this mech look a bit different.

Actually current highest bets now for the Liao LEs are Vulture, Scourge, Shen Yi, Gambit.

@Deadbolt -

We're arguing over a difference of opinion as to how WizKids is going to do things, since neither of us have the actual facts. If I continued this debate, I'd just be repeating myself. Since I've already made my points, and you've made yours, let's stop cluttering up this thread. We'll know what the super rares are soon enough.

You got an LE Liao Centurion now, Freetop. So hats off for making a good call there. Will almost guarantee that it would be a Shen Yi for another LE.

Felix Jarta's lance in Warrior House Hiritsu happens to be

Hyu Youn Cho
Ty Sung
Jas Keck

This guarantees there won't be any more "reincarnations" from previous Liao uniques. All the other uniques belonged to other Warrior Houses.