Hey jgklaw - nice to learn there is still something we agree upon these days.:D

werebob, my rants are well-reasoned usually, that moves them out of the "rant" category :) (I think)

anyway, we should all wait until tomorrow's chat, then see where it's all going, before we proclaim the end of MK, or whatever...

is that too much to ask, from both sides of the debate?? doesn't it make sense to wait until we hear from the company itself, maybe an explanation, maybe what the plans are for Unrestricted, maybe the reasoning behind it beyond what we've heard...

at least let me see the Sneak Peek tonight in peace! heheheh

I can't see anything useful coming out of the chat but if nothing else it will be interesting. :)

all right, yes it might sound a little naive to believe what WK actually stated in thier news release, but let's put it this way, there is no way I could explain it otherwise. Besides, even if its a one in a million shot, it's still worth trying.

I know Wizkids doesn't have a strong history in actually listening to their players, but I'm willing to give them one more chance.

Thats an understatement:D

Thats about all I'm going to give them. I guess all we can do is wait till tommorow. Hopefully something good will come out of the chat. I do know one thing...It's gonna be one crowded chat...

Took the words out of my mouth.

-Tsetsuki

Haven't been on in a long time, so I thought I would pipe in in the Veterns thread.

I think most of the vetern players left months ago when they saw this comming.

After being told by a Wizkids employee, at Nationals last year, that the higher up at Wizkids don't care one bit about what the players and warlords want. That they are going to do what they want to do and thats it. Then, the 2.0 anoucment. That made up my mind.

After playing in, and placing 7th, in Worlds at GenCon, I have not played a single game, and have been offloading most of my stock.

The thing is that after reading the boards here, today, I have noticed alot of people saying they don't like the changes, but they will keep playing. Its those people that WK are looking at and making their justifications, that what they did was right. They will keep making money and screwing people over as long as people keep playing.

I am a ~GASP!~ new player. I'm not new in the sense that I have never played wizkids product. I was weened on heroclix and then jumped into MWDA full scale and have been doing a good job of being a menace at local tournaments. However, I never wanted to get into MK because of the preponderance of pieces on the market already.

2.0 changed that. Here was a fresh start, a way for me to get on board without feeling too left behind. I still didn't buy 2.0, however. The only Mage Knight pieces I had were given to me and I kept them around as little MWDA sideline cheerleaders. But when I heard that they were phasing out older pieces, I bought over a case of MK 2.0. The reasons were simple. This reduced the number of pieces I would need to buy in order to make top notch armies.

Let's face it. Offensive or not, part of the reason veterans screamed was that they could see their advantage over the new players slipping through their fingers. Their 200 dollar ebay pieces were just going to be #### in the wake of 2.0. Their finely tuned tactics capitalizing on particular rule strengths were going to be lost in the retooling of the rules and the new SE's. These fools were the reason I had stayed out of MK for so long (even though I am fond of using and abusing power pieces in MWDA). Let's face it, I'm also more than a little unhappy about the idea of my precious MWDA pieces getting phased out and actually having to buy more product to keep competitive.

That said, I also realize that these changes will force entrenched individuals like me who maximize their armies to rethink their strategies and army composition. (And whoever said army composition didn't matter, let me pick you an army and I'll make one for myself. We'll put 1,000 dollars on the game and I'll be happy to take your money, even as a rank MK newbie. What? Backing out now, d_gibbings? I've never seen a guy backpedal so fast.)

2.0 is a good thing. Phasing out is a good thing. New players are a GREAT thing. Let's not just keep the game your own personal newbie stomping ground. It's about time H2H's became competitive for one of Wizkid's games.

What $200 dollar figure do you need to play? Has someone been listening to the Lions again?

Sorry you thought that you need all those figures to compete. I totally disagree with premise.

This must be the newbie who talked to Wizkids and got everyone's stuff 'retired' - get him. :)

wonderbread - I don't know who you were talking to but needing a $200 piece off EBay to compete is just silly. Doesn't make any sense - what piece would that be?

New players can be perfectly competitive without any old peices, there are about a dozen players at my venue, 3 have anything from an old set. The competition is still feirce. I have dropped over $3000 bucks on old sets that are unplayable, and I have some old favorites I like to play, but none of them give me any advatage over newer players. I am not upset that I can't stomp newbies now, because I can. Last 4 times I played I played all 2.0, 4 wins. I am upset because I have 3000 dollars worth of unusable plastic. I have old peices I love playing with and they are forcibly retired.

d_gibbings> Gee, let's focus on one number I pulled out of my butt instead of the majority of my statements in my post. And I don't see you taking my offer to play the thousand dollar game, do I? Furthermore, I'm not the one who said I needed all those figures to compete. I'm just saying there is life AFTER figure phase out. That's not the position of a LOT of people on this board.

werebob> I'm an envoy in every game system. I have pieces in all game systems except Sportclix (ugh... don't even get me into that). I am one person who HAS been supportive of this change even with my considerable collection. Again, you're focusing on a figure I pulled out of my butt and not on any number of points I made in my post. I guess since I don't start screaming "Anubnub" and jumping up and down about how expensive he was on ebay and then have you lecture me on how uncompetitive he is, you just aren't getting your daily dose of self-importance. Sorry to disappoint.

gijared> You were the first reply with an actual point to make. And I feel bad for you. Let's look at it this way though. You can still use them in unrestricted play. I'm not going to jump on the horse about friendly play, because I hardly ever play out of tournaments myself. I'm not sure if they are allowing the older pieces in scenario play, but my ignorance does not exclude this possibility either. So assuming scenario play, you're still getting at least two tournaments with the schedule they are suggesting. The other tournament would be a constructed with non-phased pieces and I think a sealed booster/box tournament. So that means your pieces are still legal in two out of the four, vs. three out of four. ~shrug~ Doesn't seem like too huge of a change to me.

We don't really know what the tournament schedule is going to be, As I understand the release, scenario games will be restricted. Leaving the possiblity of an unrestricted H2H. I would like to hope it will be more, but I am withholding judgment until I know for sure, I'm not giving up on the game, but I am not happy about the situation.

Been playing since day one and I've been complaining since 2.0...

I don't play tourneys so this ruling does not affect me..yet

Consider Magic the Gathering... now consider the numerous reprints found in each new edition. They love to reprint that Shivan Dragon over and over. I feel more "unlimited" sets are to come

Har har, d_gibbngs. ;-) Personally I have never said you need uber LEs to compete. On the flip side, my nats army last year included Cormilien the Savior and Mondravalis. But Cormelien only cost me $40 and I won Mondy, so it's all good.

It's like I've said, you wouldn't expect Tiger Woods to go out and buy his clubs at the local Big 5 Sporting Goods, would ya? If you wanna be a pro, sometimes you need to take it to the next level. Not all LEs fit that bill, to be sure, but there have been a few that tipped the scales in ones favor when used properly (Mondravalis being a key example). I don't think the changes will fix that, of course, it just means the LE value will be for a limited time, and they it will drop like a stone.

Before anyone flames back, I will absolutely concede that you don't need *any* LEs to win big. Look at the top armies at Nats. OK, so look at the ones that didn't use conquest pieces. :rolleyes: Figs like Mondravalis and Cormelian merely fit my playstyle, so I incorporated them. I bought Cormelian there the day before and worked him into my build, in the place of a different KI mounted charger. It's all in what you play, and again, I've seen people rock the board with no LEs at all, repeatedly.

;-)
Bri