to all WK / MK supportrs

all the whiners and complainers want to keep playing that is why they are voicing thier opinions...i for am one of the complainers but i constantly check the message board for an inkling or indication that there is still hope...that both parties may find a middle ground...or even the supporters can defend the game they love...

all i hear from the supporters are "you can't say that" and "please leave"...how are you defending the game if you do not show us the positives...post WK / MK supporting message and when we bring in the negativity, please show us the positive...

for the WK / MK haters (or to that effect)

Fight the good fight...

I have no issues with you...or your opinion....I like to hear people express what they think. However, when you begin to generalize and the generalization happens to include me...then I get to give you my opinion.

The Lions are a group of dissenters? The Lions have not said anything positive in a post that you can find? Christ...how much does Barrel or Xanathon have to do for it to be seen as positive? Christ, I've been touting MK now that the rotation has been announced because I love the idea and have wanted it for the last two years. I don't like the timing or the execution of the change...but I'm glad it finally happened. I know that the Lions have a few bad apples...and I'm the most rotten of the lot...but I do tell it like I see it...which more often than not...is how it is.

The Lions are the cream of the crop of Mk players as far as I'm concerned. The best strategists, army builders, and all around intelligent and nice guys. None of us will put up with being unjustly dumped on....some of us are disgruntled with WK....but I do know that we all loved...and most of us still love MK. Loving Wk and their decisions...now that's a whole other creature.

If the fact that WK is making it hard (or impossible)for some of the best MK players in the world (who also happen to be Lions) to support Mk is bothering you or other realmers...then I apologize. But this is a forum for discussion. Some of the discussions on here get heated...or just plain don't make sense. But let people speak their peace whether it be in a post or in their signature. And please don't generalize....that's just asking for rebuttals.

well i managed to scrape together a few Q'S but mostly A's


answer: [16:48] {JamesC} thet--I'm afraid not. Unrestricted events are designed for casual play in venues.

that pretty much sums it up. W.K don't care what happens in unrestricted events ie:they couldn't give a stuff. They basically washed their hands of the matter


answer:[17:00] {JamesC} Yes, absolutely--we've addressed this in the online FAQ. If a figure has been re-released, any version of that figure will be legal in competitive play.

this is good i guess but.....how many figs will be rereleased and it will be horrible if they just randomly throw in old figs in random expansion sets they should work that base sets have the older figs in and only a few new ones IMHO



answer:[17:07] {JamesC} ajantis--We're going to continue doing Unrestricted events as long as there is player interest in the format. We will continue offering these events until you stop wanting them.

its all up to us veterans (but what events will they actually hold and how can they stop unrestricted play if its casual?)

[17:51] {JamesC} reaper1028--Unrestricted events are not rated and ranked. They allow house rules, and thus there's no way to establish a level playing field

goodbye competitive play to those who have shallow pockets

question:[17:56] {KevinG} {Golempower} What if any postive consideration is being done by Wizkids to benefit the veteran competitive tournament player?

answer:[17:58] {JonL} Golempower: These changes benefit the veteran player because it will provide them with a better game that will play better, be more fun, and have tighter rules. For competitive players this will be a huge boon.

they did it again they avoided the question they answerred nearly all questions with this answer.
the bottem line is that they have not taken us in consideration and are to chicken to stand up and admit they wrong ie: they are COWARDS
if they would just say sorry maybe the uproar would be a bit less bitter.

Barromore,
I appreciate your comments.

I will admit over all of the negative posts it is hard to find positive ones.

One in particular is the Ask the Lions thread. Here we give our advice to people who are seeking advice about army designs.

There are others as well, but again they are hard to find.

Everyone else,
I think Altan summed it up pretty well. We all want Mage Knight to succeed. MK is the one common thread that we all share in common. Right now the game is teetering on the edge because of some radical changes. We all hope that is going to be around, but some of us have lingering concerns that the game might not survive too much longer.

I can't blame anyone that has walked away from the game. Any game has a normal attrition rate, but that attrition rate is normally controlled by the influx of new players that start playing.

That is not the case here. Mage Knight has lost far more players than it brings in. Why? This is my opinion so take it for what it is, but I blame WizKids.

Why? They don't try to counteract the negative word of mouth advertising, they haven't really given existing players a reason to continue playing, and they keep alienating their Envoys.

Again IMO until they recognize these problems Mage Knight, and their other games, will be in jeapordy.

Many players and Envoys have tried to give their input as many of us have the qualifications to do so. We have all been ignored or worse given warning points or banned from the WizKids forums.

I know many Envoys and there are many that stick out as very intelligent people that have advance degrees. These are people that WizKids should listen to, but they choose not to. I have always thought that companies are the most productive and profitable when they keep an ear open to new ideas. Wizards of the Coast is a prime example of this. This could be the reason that bshugg has what he has in his signature.

Again these are just my opinions. You can take them for what they are.

I think that sums it up..Barronmore you hit it right on the head as far as many such as Bshugg, Wkura and many others feel.

Bshugg's sig is not as much about DDMG as it is about how WK runs its games. As far as Garuo sig well it is a little off but research FASA and you'll see what I mean.

The rotation is not the issue with me. What bothers me is the PR spin sutff. I think we have well established the that WK is going continue to repeat "unrestricted events" All unrestricted events are is whatever you want. Sure you can play retired figs but you can also play 8 of the same unique because it is up to the venue and or warlord as to what is legal. For those that want to play by borg's rules guess what you can do it in unrestricted events.

I play this game because I like to compete..plain and simple. I do not play this game for the LEs. In fact I do nto take the LEs when I do win 99.9% of the time. I just let them pass them down. I play to compete at a National and some time I hope World level. The mismanagement and being otu of touch with the player base is what drives me and many others nuts and I have no clue if they will ever get it right.

@Barrel:

I actually just had the "fasa" discussion with my Brother-in-law about a month ago. He asked me why I felt WK was being mismanaged. I simply said, "Jordan Wiesman" and pointed to the fact that FASA, Battletech, Ral Partha, and most other projects Wiesman has worked on have all failed. Not because of the product or idea, on the contrary the game lives on after the companies death, but because of the mismanagement of the company. It evenutally falls apart at the seams....

I had a nice talk with Dave Chase the other day. He agrees with me. Management has issues. They don't want to address issues. They spin the PR to say what they want. They go on with their life. Dave went on with his and wished the best to WK and MK in general. The problem is, many of us players see thorugh it...manly because at one time or another we were all warlords. I personally blame WK on this because they've given the MK community very close and personal access in the past and now they are trying to pull in the welcome mat instead of inviting us in for tea to tell us why these things must be done to keep the game alive and healthy.

I'm just trying to egnore what WK says most the time and go on with my life. Part of that going on is trying to enjoy a game I love when I really don't care for the parent company. I keep up the rulings and such becasue as a former warlord in good standing it will be up to me to run events if my brother-in-law EVER opens up a venue of his own.

Ah...I'm done. I've said my peace. I have it off my chest. I'd love to see more positive posts but I guess that will have to begin with me.

@Xanathon;

I appreciate your appreciation (for that matter, I'm so happy your so happy :))

@Alcatraz;
I havn't checked out the "Ask a Lion" thread yet because frankly, I don't play competitive tournaments anymore and only enjoy casual games when I warlorded for them. I like building armies where I get kicked around by the new kid. It's more fun that way. I'll check it out...

Itm all comes down to this:

The game is good, the companys support and caring of the players sucks.

But thats no reason to hurl barbs and insults, they dont work. When someone insults me i dont spring out of my chair and go "Oh my god! Your insults and barbs have touched my heart, il lget right to it" the words "Bite" and "Me" would more than likely come up.

How about instead of emailing we start physicaly CALLING the company and talk to a live person and inform them more of us will be calling? email doesnt seem to work nor do online petions, lets call.

Dfazman and I and a few others live only about 200 miles away, perhaps some picket signs would work?

"It's too late, we won't rotate"

"How about drugs? Banned, or simply retired? Cause you must have been engaging in a few "unrestricted events" to make this decision!"

"My wallet is no longer fully compatible with MK 2.0."

"I spent my 401k on MK, so I guess it's only fair that my figs get to retire before me."

"The almighty dollar has spoken, and WK has proven it's in 'God they trust'"

"$2000 for MK figures. $1500 for convention and tournament expenses. $200 for nifty dice, rulers, battleboards, etc... Explaining to your son the difference between retired and banned...Priceless!"

"Perhaps if WK foregoes stale sticks of bubblegum in exchange for small tubes of vaseline in new MK boosters we could take this the way they intended."

or simply

"Liar, liar pants on fire!"

And, for my part, no offence is taken. The point that I (and other "dissenters") are still trying to make is this:

MK is a great game that WK seems bound and determined to kill through poor management.

Yes, I had some problems with 2.0 - almost all in the way is was marketed, released, and how some things which should have been considered ahead of time (domain interactions) were ignored. But my issues were with Wizkids LLC, not Mage Knight. My problems with the current "retiring" of figures is not because my uber-LEs are no longer playable - I play Orcs (as in Goblin Volunteers, Half-troll Hackers, etc). I play for fun - and always have. I am upset because, according to the chat, this has been discussed for over a year, and they spent [b]at least[b] the last five months discussing how to implement it. Had they retired all 1.0 when 2.0 came out, I think it would have been met with less hostility.

Grathel - calling is fine. I tried, back in the days of Dustin and before, and some people are helpful and responsive, and some aren't. I hope you get the former.

altan
you are a legend :cool:

This part doesn't make any sense:

"it's that some players can't walk into a store and have a chance to pull a figure out of a booster"

So now we can pull new LEs out of 2.0 boosters.

The fact is, the figures that were dominating the scene, for the most part, can be purchased cheaply on ebay or at local game stores that sell singles. The figures that truly unbalance the competitive scene are the rare LEs that cost way too much for the average kid to afford (Conquest LEs, Gilgarsh, etc...), as well as the uber figs that should never have made it past playtesting. And these are not the fault of old sets, but rather of the people who designed the old sets. With the new retirement rules, if WK lets another KI Chariot, Corpheus or aDrac make it into the player's hands, we're still stuck with it for a full 2 years minimum by their own words. So the true way to fix the game is, first to redesign the playtesting process and/or hire new/better people. Second, if the figure truly requires it, simply admit when you screw up and ban/errata the specific figure causing the problem. Rotation is a way for WK to keep from admitting their mistakes while supposedly increasing sales by necessitating the purchase of new product. And, as I've said before, at this point rotation isn't an entirely bad idea. But the presentation is terrible and is going to drive away a lot of players. Truly a PR nightmare that could so easily have been greatly limited with very little thought.

Evi|_Weavi|, I'll definitely be a legend when I become the first moderator to be banned! ;)

Well, all I have time for right now is a little - I"m working swing shift tonight.

Barronmore, thanks for the kind words. I know I"ve been fiesty lately, but it's only because I have no MK in my future - I game I have paid hundreds of dollars to fly halfway across the country to comepete playing two years in a row. I loved it. I don't anymore, and it's a bummer. I'd rather play than complain, but I can't play! LOL!

Altan, I have volunteers offering up their collections for us to burn on their doorstep. OK, what I was supposed to do with the figs was a little different, but not postable here. ;-)

To people telling the complainers to go away, here's a thought. It takes two to tango. If you're tired to arguing, stop. I highly doubt there will be threads of people just complaining without anyone adding fuel to the fire and arguing back. I never argued with complainers in the past because there was no point - you weren't going to change their mind. The same is true now, I'm just on the other side of the fence, as I have been told. Now that I'm completely disgruntled, nothing anyone says will fix that. Talking won't bring back MK to the Portland market, or undo the negative things WK has done to me personally or to the game in general. SO if you're unhappy with us being negative, ignore us - it's what I did in the past when I was all happy and pro-WK and they could to no wrong. It worked great.

;-)
Bri

Bri your sig line... it's about the dollar, what's wrong with that? WK needs to make moeny to survive so the game survives

wk survival = game survival

why is WK being after $$ bad?? it make sense. maybe you don't like the way they went about it, but as a consumer, I'm all for WK making reasonable $$ and staying in business and keeping our game alive!!

When you guys are right, you are right.

I especially like your signature dfazman, that sums it up nicely.

I'm not quitting because of MageKnight, I love Mageknight. I'm quitting because of the comapny that owns MageKnight. It's not the same company it was when it started, its not even the same company that it was a year ago. This is just the final link in a chain that started about a year ago. They started altering things to make the company look better to prospective buyers, then it was sold and all of the original employee's either quit and/or were fired. The change in employee's was really the signpost for me. The rotation purely in an attempt to make more money, regardless of the players, is the last link in that chain. Making more money isn't bad, just the way they are going about it.

In summary, I'm quitting not because of the rotation of sets but because of the negative changes to the company that produces those sets.

Peace out.