Take a deep breath. Take away all the heat your brain has already generated in response to this issue. Take another deep breath. Now, do you honestly think it was a dis-service to the Marvel Universe to upgrade Longshot and Spiral like they did? Doesn't that make everything else worth it?

Now Biz, remember your relaxation techniques.

Shouldn't UDE consider an Ultimate Marvel set? We could have Longshot, Ultimate Longshot and Mojo, Ultimate Mojo!!!

And, of course, a plot twist called "The Most Dangerous Game". That would rock.

how did you manage that, Doomsday doesnt cause breakthrough.

I assume he stunned the board with Doomsday and then attacked directly with everyone else.

He probably would have done at least 20 damage just stunning the board and then a 7, 6 and 5 attacking directly [maybe a Team Tactics to use Doomsday that one last time?]

What? *You* can't get out 90 resource points worth of characters by turn 7 with *your* GLEE? Your GLEE sucks :p

I kinda thought that Logan got some decent cards... hell even if most of them were bad, that 3 drop is enough to make up for a lotta stuff...

the post that my quote is from is responding to a post where someone used 7 drop Wolvie to cause 58 damage by himself, before other attacks. i thought that Chimmy Imp meant that he had Doomsday himself cause 90 points of damage himself, although Walter's explanation is probobly what he did.

I'm going to say something i belive i may regret later-

Wolverine has his place, unfortunately, most of the writers have no idea what that place is.

another good bit of comic bit advice-

there are no bad characters, only bad writers.

a good writer can make any character deep and complex and interesting, the bad part comes when the writer is not good, and to make up for thier deficiancies they toss the money maker for the month in their book just to sell.

this is wolverine problems, he is every damn where, he is writen poorly and i am sick of reading badly characterized stories.

"but cyke, that is not wolverine's fault" you may be saying, well maybe it is not, but i frankly don't find him that interesting to begin with anyway. he is really just a standard rebel, bad boy character, he has very little depth- oh o! i must control the beast within! am i a man or an animal! oh the drama!

secondly, i hate ignorant fans that beleive that rules of a universe need not apply when dealing with popularity.

news flash guys, comics are a form of sciencie fiction, and like all good sci-fi, they are only beleivable when they adher to whatever form of logic and rules apply to that universe. but apprently, wolverine, and to the same extent, batman, break these rules of the own universe.making their own stories unbeilievbale and inane.




as for the ultimate universe-

to me comics are more than sci-fi, they are modern day myths, in the past 50-60 years of marvel, we have had some great dramatic moments, moments that make you appreciate just how powerful comics can be as a mediam, these deep emotional moments are the back-bone on why we love the characters in the first place.

the ultimate universe was made for the casual fans, a way to get new people reading without worrying about continuity, and emotional connection, also becuase they are based on giving the readers introductory stories into the characters, they will never be able to equal the sheer emotional range that the real universe has provided, even if they somehow get to that level, it will never match the first time it happened inthe real world, they wuill just be trendy updates of the death of gwen staci, the phoenix saga, the coming of galactus, etc...

the ultimate U is the appettizer, i will stick to the main course.

Wow. That was good. I am proud to have asked.

Whatever, dude. All I know is that I tried to get into this whole comic thang way back when the marvel trading cards hit it big, but I quickly grew tired of the titles I bought (a lot of Spidey, some Avengers) because they kept referencing characters I didn't know and events I never saw. It seemed like every other issue some character I had never seen before would "return", only it wasn't a return for me because I had never seen that character. I quit.

I dabbled in buying Generation X for a while, because it was a relatively new series, but it had all these annoying references to X-Men and crap and that totally turned me off of it. I stopped buying when Omega red appeared.

I stopped buying comics for a while, but I went back during the Age of Apocalypse arc because I thought that it would last longer and that I would finally be able to understand the stories in the books I was buying.

Around four months later, AOA ended and I quit comics again.

As you probably know by now, I started buying comics again when the ultimate universe was created. I am quite satisfied with it, and find reading it gives me more enjoyment than looking at the more established universe. I can see where it can use some improvement, and it does try to be a bit too "cool" at times, but frankly I'm just so happy that I know what's going on in it that I could care less about its flaws.

Perhaps the original marvel universe really is superior, but I don't buy for a minute the notion that I could go into a comic store and buy the last few years worth of, say, X-Men back-issues and have any idea what's going on in there. I tried looking at a couple of issues and there was all this weird crap about Iceman turning into solid ice and his trying to rekindle a long-lost relationship with Polaris (a relationship which I had never heard of before).

I like super-heroes. I like comic books. I tried to give the original universe a chance. Unfortunately, I was born about two decades too late and there is really no hope of me getting into any story if I start reading it at this point.

This post is already too long, and judging from the responses to my original post I can see that I have no hope of convincing anyone that the Ultimate U is any good. I suppose I will just have to settle for being simply a second-class comic fan in these forums.

I have to disagree about the Ultimate line, Cyke. And keep in mind I have been reading about these characters since I was old enough to read. I find the Ultimate line interesting because of the subtle differences in the way things play out. Plus they have some of the best writers on these books, Millar, Ellis, Bendis etc. Just think of it as an extended What If. Like you said, it's the writers that make or break a title. In my opinion Ultimate Spidey has a hell of a lot of heart and " emotional impact". Ultimates is the most interesting take on Avengers I have ever seen. And Ellis's UFF had so much charm. How much of this stuff have you read? Don't judge a book by it's cover...

Wow. That was good. I am proud to have asked.

Aren't we losing ourselves in the wrong argument? Wolverine is a thug...discuss.

Word.

Losing ourselves in the wrong arguement is what we do. If they made an Ultimate Marvel set, what would it be like? It seems that the myth protectors would see it as a cutesy little simple starter set with flashy trendy costumes but no new abilities.