just to be clear: casual players do not play in PCQs, 10Ks or PCs. if you play in any of these, you are not a casual player. grow a brain.

casual players play in Hobby Leagues, at the kitchen table or in their parents garage.

stu, you are not a casual player.


TBZ
illumination free of charge

And when are the pros playing a casual player? More importantly, why in god's name does the CASUAL player care if he wins the competition?

It hurts me in my left testicle to do this, but I have to agree with Foilball here.

Saying a casual player is killed by TDC is the exact same as saying kids that are akin to those feature in The Sandlot are threatened by the Yankees. Casual players can interact with competitive players, don't get me wrong. However, I find it hard to imagine that a casual player is going to go to a high level tournament, play, and then get pissed because he lost to good players (who happen to be on a team or not, who cares) and ACTUALLY be a casual player and not just a competitive player who isn't very good at the game.

Maybe it's just that I think if you REALLY care about winning so much that you get pissed off when you lose to someone on a big team, you're a competitive player, and most likely a bad sport. Then again, maybe I'm the retarded one for thinking that casual players aren't going to try their best to win-at-all-costs, by definition.

PCs? No, it's tough to imagine there being much of a truly casual contingent there. However, since both 10K's and PCQ's do have open entry, it's fully possible for someone to go to these with winning only being a secondary motivation. Casual is really more an attitude than a play location. I know people that go to PCQs because they enjoy the prospect of getting to play against more people, and don't even really think about the prizes very much. Just because an event is made for a specific purpose doesn't mean that someone can't get in on it for their own purposes. ^_^

But it is trash. Believe me, I know. I wasted almost a month on it. My teammates hated me for it. Doug Tice originally presented almost the same version of it to the team forums and I ran with it. Prosak even helped me make it as good as it could be. We devoted countless mock PCs to it. Way more time went into it than Jesse's "I built this a few days ago and it rocks."

I still love the deck. But it just doesn't beat Faces or Squad. Any deck that doesn't do that is trash. There is no since mincing words here. I like Jesse. I respect him as a player. I always enjoy playing him. But that doesn't change the fact that his deck and certainly my favorite deck is doodoo.

I didn't make that statement because I am an elitist prick. Even though I am an elitist prick. I simply did not wish to mislead the average pcqer.

Alright, my competitive curiosity must be quenched, what is this deck that is complete trash?

The Semantics beef is fine. You guys win, casual players don't go to PCs. Casual-minded players, maybe.

Either way, the offers of concession are an issue. I am not talking about getting beaten by a "pro", I am talking about being manipulated by one. How would you feel if you beat one of the big names in an tournament... and then they asked if you wanted to concede since they have a better chance of making Top 8? They are not allowed, by UDE Tournament policy, to offer you anything... but it is always assumed. What would that do for your opinion of the tournament scene in general and the particular big name "pro" that made the offer? Would it make any difference if the offer was made before or after you beat him? Would it make you wonder about his past successes?

I know this is heavy stuff, but it has been bugging the hell out of me since Atlanta.

He is referring to me calling the Energy Burn deck (my favorite by far) that Jesse Hill piloted to 8-2 trash in my top eight profile at Austin.

Every Friday night, at my "local gaming store" that's half an hour away in another town, there is a Magic tournament. Every single time it's a Swiss tournament, there will be 5 rounds and a cut to a top 4. Every single time this happens, there are draws in round 5. Every single time, when it gets to the top 2, about one in every 5-10 tournaments will it not be a split. Every single time.

The fact of the matter is that if I'm heading off to a tournament at the level of a 10k or a PC, I am expecting to see #### like that, except that there won't be the whole "draw" option, only a concession option.

If the situation you described happened to me, Rian, it depends on the timing. If it was BEFORE I played them, I would think it a tactical/intimidation mistake on their part, because in that very moment they are conceding their own fallibility, which the notion that these pro players are better than us is the only reason we might play badly to them and lose to them. But if they want me to concede, it's obvious that they fear the possibility of losing, which means I have a possibility of winning. Grasping on to that fact in and of itself will help me defeat whatever other intimidation tactics they may feel like throwing out.

And if they lose to me, and THEN ask me to concede to them, I'll just tell them "No thank you" (unless, of course, it's one of my teammates on Team Shocker, in which case I'd say, "Hey, #### off, I want the glory!"). (Actually, knowing me, I'd probably laugh when they offered, whether it be beforehand or afterwards.)

As far as how that would affect my opinion of the pro scene, little to none. I know stuff like that happens, I just don't understand why someone would concede there unless they literally knew they had ZERO chance of going on, like if the other person was paired down or something. I just don't see how that's directly related to the notion of people being on a big team rather than people just being solo and still being pro #######s.

I know this game is better about that stuff than the competitive magic scene, but at my local shop, it's NOT the competitive magic scene at the pro-level, it's just people playing for packs or rares. No money ever exchanges hands. I don't expect the competitive VS scene to be any different. (Well, maybe a little bit worst, because these people are just playing for packs, and the people in a PC are playing for big bucks.)

I'm sorry, Rian, but I just don't think you're idealism can stand here. I'm going to have to side with reality on this one.

At a PC, the answer is clear to me... you play. Period. This isn't even a matter of being rude. It's simply in the nature of the game that you have a very specific line to cross to get to day two. If you're not going to make it that time, bad beats for you. If it's a teammate in a later round, that's different, but also a pretty specific situation. If it was later in day 2, I might be a bit more sympathetic, but the siren call of the paycheck means that without any guarantee that I'll get anything other than gratitude for giving up hundred to thousands of dollars, I'd rather just go donate that extra money to charity, and put it to real use. Essentially, the bigger the format, the less likely I am to have any willingness to give up the game. In a PCQ or 10K, if we're in a situation where my win knocks up both out of the top whatever for a prize, but the opponent winning gets him in, I'd probably give it up, unless it looked like his spot might knock a teammate out of the running. There's no easy answer, but I'll add this... it doesn't matter WHO it is. If you're not on my team, the only reason your name is a concern is for the inevitable bad beat story later.

On that note, an unrelated list... my pro bad beats:
1) Peter Sundhom
2) Patrick Yapjoco

Both on round 1 of the two big events I've been to... coincidence? ^_^ Damn 'p' names...

The concession stuff isnt that big a deal IMO. Sometimes I will continue playing in a tourney even if its gone badly for me just because I like to play. I will also usually be aware of what my opponents record is before matches. If I am out of it and my opponent still has a shot at top 8 or something, I will usually offer to concede after the match if I have won. I do this whether its a pro or joe nobody. If I'm still in contention, then its not an option and I dont care who it is in that case either.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "bad beats"?

Is it in the poker sense, meaning you had a ridiculous draw like 4 of a kind, but he had better, like a straight flush?

Is it in a Magic-manascrew sense of you're just flat out boned from the beginning and nothing good happens to you throughout the game?

Or is it like getting skunked in cribbage (where, if I remember correctly, means he won by like 150)?

No apologies, my friend. I wouldn't value your opinion nearly as much if I didn't know you would tell me straight. And your anwers were straight-out perfect.

It is reality, I know that. Since I am somewhat of an "outsider" now... I can speak out and try to change that reality. Or at least let everyone know what to expect and how many grains of salt should be applied to the results.

If a team has a large number of players, they will be much more likely to scoop properly to each other when the deciding rounds come along. That's pathetic politics, not proven playskill. There is no sport there.

If they brag about owning the tournament afterward, this must be taken into account.

That's my take as a sportswriter. Hank Aaron > Barry Bonds.

Well, if you're an Outsider, then do you have any info on when your team will be featured in VS? Will it come out with the next Batman-themed set? Will it focus on the new team or the old one?

(Idealism or not, sometimes it's good to escape reality.)

Depends. Against Peter, it was the fun of missing several drops in a row. The game against Patrick was much closer, but can be attributed greatly to a power-up on his 2-drop Rayner on turn 3; that, or any one of several cards hitting my hand would've probably swung it for me, but that's how it goes sometimes. ^_^

Hal McCrae>Hank Aaron>Barry Bonds. ;)

Stu: Check PM