What was this thread again?

sure, i totally agree. i wasn't bashing the greeks (OBV!!!), i was bashing the movie.

yes, i can honestly say that thought never crossed my mind. the movie actually BORED me almost to DEATH!!! and that statement is coming from a man that has probably watched 10 times as many action movies as the regular person. i've seen them all, and i can honestly say 300 was boring. it didn't have anything i hadn't seen before. i was bored and turned off by it even before all the racist #### sunk in. sorry.

and that's why we will always disagree on this (and i'm sure i will disagree with the majority of realms as well). the real issue here, for me anyway, is the fact that most people refuse to see movies as more than just "popcorn flicks". they refuse on a conscious level what their unconscious easily recognizes. you said it yourself: "Man, I want to work out so I can be as savage as a Spartan." how is this a positive message for today's youth? which were the majority of the audience members in the theater i saw it in, i might add.

this movie is political allegory. those who refuse to admit this are being naive. maybe the director didn't mean for it to be, but i'm damn sure miller did and since zak chose to copy the book so diligently, the message carries through from one medium to the other. my fear, is that most people misconstrue the message. 300 can easily be viewed as the first overtly pro-war movie since 9/11. in a time when the nation is flip-flopping on the issue of troop buildup, it sickens me to think that so many Americans (based on ticket sales) still think it's ok for our heroes to act like the Spartans (or are we more like the Persians...hehe, think about that one).

so yeah, i hated it. :p

Not to get too political ... but the Spartans pretty much realized they were in an unwinnable war [well, battle...] but chose to fight anyway because cutting and running was a disgusting option?

In my opinion, movies like Crash, Brokeback Mountain, American Beauty - such a great film...- and Flight 93 have shown that the audience aren't just interested in popcorn flicks. Audiences have shown that they also like to watch movies that are thought provoking.

With regards to sending a message... I think today's society sends considerably more conflicting and negative messages to youths that are more powerful.

In America, women are generally raised on Protestant values but are exposed to things like MTV and hyper-sexualized media constantly. Look at your 13-14 year old kids nowadays. My God! Is your living off the pole?

You live in SoCal, you must be very familiar with "plastic" people. Is this a positive message? At the very least, it's not a very clear message.

There are plenty of other stereotypes and messages the media try to convey to us.

Being savage like a Spartan may not be a positive message, but deep down, I think everyone feels confined. At some point, everyone feels like just breaking free and going ape #### but we can't because of laws and repercussions. Seeing a group of masculine idealistic men who were able to defy the authority of a greater power has an inherent attractive quality to us and is, in my opinion liberating.

My hope is that some kid that's being bullied sees the movies and goes kick some bully ### the day after.

I see where you're coming from.

To be honest, I think the Nation is headed more toward a definitive move away from Iraq. Especially with the democratic congress - but this is another thread in itself.

In and of itself, I think 300 is a message about how some values are worth dying for. The Spartans die for democracy, but they also are dying for their honor and glory. I don't think it's necessary an advocation of war. Perhaps it's more of a nod to soldiers and their sacrifices? I know that after the Vietnam war, soldiers came back expecting to be treated as heroes but were instead looked down upon and ostracized.

Then again... messages are just what we make of them. The same person who looks at 300 and sees a racist portrait of Persians might already be inclined to look at some things from a narrow perspective. We have Cliff Notes on LotR, but Tolkein himself didn't intend for any symbolism in the books. I knew a person who thought Mulan was part of the movement to further the social castration of the Asian male.

As an allegory... can you honestly picture our Commander in Chief as Leonidas?

BTW... was the comic itself a critique on a different war?

Z-dawg, this is probably the first time I have ever really disagreed with something you've posted. People who see parallels between 300 and Iraq are those who are TRYING, and desperately, to find connections that are marginal at best. When I saw the movie (IMAX, woo!), the current war was the last thing from my mind. I watched Spartans being badass and holding against crazy odds, and not once did I think about comparing them to U.S. soldiers. Nor did I see the Immortals and think OOOOH INSURGENTS. And When I think Persians, I do NOT think Iran, since they're almost completely different cultures seperated by thousands of years. It's like making a movie about Romans and having Italians getting upset. It doesn't make sense.

So yeah... Frank Miller wrote/drew '300' knowing that we were someday going to go to war with Iraq.

So is George Lucas trying to tell us something with 'Star Wars'?

I suppose 'Aliens' is really about immigration issues.

Sheesh.

Someone said you were Billy Zonos. I figured that since everything one reads on Vsrealms is always true, that must be as well.

So, I start one post on the ever increasingly homicidal foilball and now we're talking about 300? Wow! Go topic changes! It's like, right now, if I said the words, Invisible Woman, trust me, the convo would go in the direction of Jessica Alba. And no, I'm not talking about the incredibly flavorful and possibly NC-17 rated topic on her, just in general.


Coolexplosion

you're right that the media bombards us daily with conflicting messages, but that doesn't make the message of one movie any less important.

i understand where you're coming from. 300 tells us it's okay to be men again, which is a great message seeing as how most American males how been castrated by the system. i'm fine with that. what bothers me is that there is no point in the movie where they talk about restraint. there must be balance.


i thought the romantic ideal of a heroic death, death for honor and glory, went out with WWI? this is probably the most annoying thing about this movie. the king basically tells his men that retreat is impossible, regardless of whether or not they are right or wrong, because it would damage their honor. that is ludicrous. is that why we should stay in Iraq? is that why we stayed in Vietnam?

and you bring up LOTR and Tolkien which is a whole other thread, IMO. IMO, Tolkien, like many artists and authors, deny the source of their inspiration so that the focus remains on their work and for the egocentric, themselves. yes, i think Tolkien was lying. yes, Tolkien is human. can i prove he was lying? can i prove god exists? obviously, the answer to both questions is 'no' as both, for me, have to do with belief.

no, i can't. i see him more like Xerxes. don't you? :p


i think it was a meditation on war in general.

that makes me sad. :cry:


i didn't think of the spartans as US soldiers either, nor did i think of the immortals as insurgents. that fact that most people aren't thinking about it at all really troubles me. but, i guess this has gotten far too political, my fault really, for a thread about city champs.

sorry.

i never said that. no one said that until you just did. obviously, miller can't see the future. obvious.

isn't he?

not immigration, aside from the illegal alien joke toward the beginning.

your mom.

yeah, i'm billy zonos.

...Alba say what? have you seen that other thread? did we get enough pics? i don't think so. TDB, you gonna get on that or what?


oh yeah, and sorry about the infy posts, WaKoing is new to me.

Wait... what? Greeks don't use capital letters?

(Billy's tombstone is going to read "Rebel without a Shift Key." Bad beat.)

i figure in between inventing democracy, grapes, alcohol and beating up a million persians we've earned the privilege to eschew capital letters and possibly proper grammer for that matter

billy's tombstone should read "worse then losing without Hounds lock on three"

Greeks also have really hot eyebrows. Billy is a perfect example of that.

Can you just stick to Marvel set flavor please? All this poli-sci yap-yap is brain draining.

So... uhh... I'm getting cancellations from people who are supposed to play in our City Champs. Who killed VS again?