Do a wiki on Upper Deck then try and tell me that UD is not UDE. Even better go to http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/ude/en/ and then tell me what's the logo on the upper left corner.

If you think I'm a jerk just because I find cursing out of place in a site that can be read by kids then fine, I just think that there are more creative ways of expressing yourself, even if you feel like cursing.

Oh boy here I go again every TCG or CCG out there owes everything to MTG, as it laid the foundation that everyone out there stands on.

How can you say that YGO would of still happened without MTG? Every game out there has a bit of MTG in them. Sure card games could of happened but not in the way we know them to be right now.

Don't worry, I stand by you, Shadow. :cool:

Without YGO, UDE would not have the money to invest into a $1mil Pro Circuit.

Despite having a profitable sports collectibles division... that alone was not enough to start up VS the way they did. YGO's cash reserves is what enabled UDE to do so.

Like I said... they might have still been able to do VS... just not with the money PC. And back then, most of UDE thought that was the best way to market a new competitive TCG so they may not have created VS at all w/out this in place.

And I do agree that all card games owe something to MtG... in fact... if you read the small print on YGO starters... you'll notice a legalese line that mentions Wizards of the Coast.

YGO led to VS. Sorry, but it's the truth. UDE budgeted money and hired a staff to build a game -- with a lot of that money coming from Yugioh profits. The ORIGINAL design of VS was based off a Yugioh design. It was nothing like the game is today. They demo'd the original game and decided they didn't like it. So they scrapped the base of the whole game and came up with the Origins sets we know.

Now VS from Origins onwards owes a huge part of it's core to MTG. That I'd agree with. But if it weren't for Yugioh, VS would have never gotten to the point where they built it with a chunk of design from MTG.

actually, we should all thank the White Wolf people. Je'had was first. the MTG. but Je'had went onto some changes, so it's not like MTG continueing the name, and general play.

Thanks Speedy.

$1300 for a current tier 1 Yugioh deck. Yikes. How many tier 1 VS decks could you build for $1300???

Mtg=1993

Jyhad/Vampire:The Eternal Struggle=1994

Just thought I would point that out

Magic is pretty much the first to market as far as CCG's go, and most other products owe it in some way (yes even YGO) be it from mechanics or business model.

All of them...lol