Discussing episode 1 of She-Hulk:

I like the humour and I love that they’re not being shy about the 4th wall breaks. It also seems to be something she gained with her powers, considering she surprised herself with it on the beach.

Didn’t love the training, and especially not the fight.

The training felt like Bruce was too focussed on his own experiences to look at Jen’s situation objectively (and with a hint of jealousy over her more favourable Hulk-situation). I can see why he would react that way, given how much effort it took for him to find his own solution, but it’s still not fun to see.

And the fight. What did that accomplish?

I know it’s a staple of the superhero genre for supers to "settle their differences" with a brawl, but I really expected Smart Hulk to be more mature than that.
How did that brawl change his opinion? I’m glad he came around, but why did he come around?

So actually, I’m less upset about the brawl itself, and more upset that the brawl was what made Bruce agree to let her go.
This is a lawyer show, couldn’t we have gotten a debate instead? Let Jen show her lawyer skills by presenting a good case for Bruce letting her go home. Heck, have them argue back and forth while they punch each other, if you need the action. But at least have them actually come to an agreement about her leaving via actual arguments.

Wow, you make a VERY good point about the fight. Put like that, it's startling that it turned into a fight instead of Jennifer lawyering her way off of Hulk's compound. I would have MUCH prefered to have seen that.

My guess is that the training sequence was meant to illustrate & play out Jen's dialogue about how she's infinitely better at controlling her anger because of toxic men who would mansplain, belittle, control, and potentially do violence on her for speaking out of turn. Hulk, despite wanting to help her, winds up embodying those things and tries to solve a conflict with her using violence. He winds up proving her right.

It's strange, though. Even though Jen's dialogue is very pointed, it's frustrating because the show feels like it becomes about Hulk and his maladjustment/unconscious toxicity when we're primed for Jennifer to do her thing. Once we figure out that she doesn't need Hulk's training, there's a "yeah, I got it" vibe that bogs everything down.

This point might be less objective, but I don't think anybody wants to see Hulk be an example of toxic masculinity, and it doesn't feel good to see him be that for an episode and to go so far in his f*** up. The message there, it seems, is that everybody's got to stop and check their privilege and unconscious beliefs from time to time. I get it, and that makes sense, but that didn't stop the writing from allowing Hulk to override what was supposed to be Jennifer's pilot episode.

I agree completely. It’s never fun when they make an established character act stupidly just to make the new character shine. That’s not a good way to make the viewers like your new character.

I do like Jen in the episode, but it was still annoying.

Finally saw the first episode, and quite frankly, I loved it. Any She-Hulk story, more than with most characters, lives and dies on who Jen is, which is a huge part of why I was not able to abide by the past several years of She-Hulk stories in which she was reimagined to be “what if the regular Hulk had boobies and awesome hair?”. So to get a live action Jen that brings her back to what makes her special, what makes her so much fun, was just delightful.

And I think one thing that stuck out to me that hasn’t really been brought up is Bruce trying to hold on to Jen because he’s desperately lonely and probably more than a little depressed. He lives alone on a beach to protect the world because no matter how well integrated he is, he still knows he’s volatile and dangerous. He’s lost his best bud, and now his cousin who was his best bud back when they were kids is probably the one person who can safely spend time with him. Yes, he wanted to make sure she understood her Hulkness, wanted to help her through her change reasonably assuming she’d have the same experience he did, but he also desperately wanted a friend. I honestly felt badly for him, and thought the whole thing made him a bit more sympathetic.

What I liked about Savage Hulk Jen is that women don't really get to be monstrous. When you see female monsters, they're still likely to look like human women, albeit with mildly distorted features. Female monsters are still expected to be sexy and present sexual codification. Meanwhile, men get to look nothing remotely human and have more affecting stories for it. They are not burdened with also being sexual, but can perhaps mourn their lost sexuality.

I'm not saying that She-Hulk is a bad character; far from it, but Savage She-Hulk presented an opportunity to explore the range of how women should be allowed to present themselves. The show depicts classic She-Hulk, and that's fine in and of itself.

I can see that argument for Bruce's role in the pilot, but I suppose that depends on how much of the MCU we're keeping in mind for this. Are we assuming this is mellowed out, balanced Endgame-era Professor Hulk who no longer has to shun society, or are we assuming that he could still become Savage Hulk at any time and is a danger to himself and others and MUST self-isolate? I didn't read it as the latter, so Bruce keeping her on the compound didn't feel good to me.

That said, I'd LOVE a proper sequel to INCREDIBLE HULK. I loved the Bruce Jones and Al Ewing runs on Hulk, and I love Marvel horror in general. I'd like to see Hulk resume being a horror character.

Yeah, but being a monster wasn’t the point of She-Hulk. It was about a woman who never really had a lot of confidence in herself coming out of her shell and gaining self-esteem. I mean, criticizing She-Hulk for not being monstrous enough is like saying Spider-Man should have become a b-movie spider monster.

I mean, I'm not criticizing She-Hulk for not being monstrous; I'm defending the idea of Savage She-Hulk because it fills a gap in representation.

I definitely like the idea of She-Hulk as a character who gets positive self-esteem from her newfound self... but I'm admittedly a little leery about how it was depicted in some of the comics. I remember an issue of the Slott run hingeing on how her transformation subtly altered her mind, lowering her inhibitions and making her more promiscuous. That... seems problematic to me. I'm curious if that's a choice a female writer would've made for the character.

Talking baseline, though: She-Hulk as an assertive, sex-positive character works for me!

That said, Spider-Man as a B-movie spider monster?!Don't threaten me with a good time!

I’m loving the vibe of this show so far after 2 episodes… excited for some of the surprises we might get!!

Discussing episode 2 of She-Hulk:

Overall, I’m still enjoying the show and Jen herself.

But it’s more cathartic to talk about the stuff I didn’t like, so here goes:

I still don’t like Bruce in this. He seems like a pretty crappy friend/cousin. In a message during the unemployment sequence, we hear him promise not to gloat "this time". Does that imply he gloated when Jen got fired? Because that’s what it sounds like to me, and that would make him a huge jerk.

I’m not too thrilled that Jen is so against her hero name. Does she just get over it at some point, or will she spend her entire MCU existence hating her own hero moniker? Hero names are supposed to be empowering.


Regarding Emil Blonsky, it’s certainly a big change in personality. Maybe he’s faking it to get out of jail? That would make for a nice twist.
It was also good to see Tim Roth back on screen in the role. Apparently he also voiced Abomination in Shang Chi? That’s surprising attention to detail.

Regarding “I Am Groot” and the question of who this was for.

I just watched these shorts with my two-year old son, and he was cracking up the whole time. So hey, bite-size MCU my toddler can appreciate? I love that.

Glad you're digging it! I certainly see what the show is going for with Jen, and I have to believe it's going to bring the thunder in the next episode.

I mean, we know it's bringing the devil and we've got reasons to believe it's bringing the croak C;

I think Bruce's gloating was about how she'd eventually be forced to go public, but I agree, it's an awkward line that feels like it reinforces the pilot's mansplaining. Really hope the next time we see Banner's Hulk in something, it's a bit more elegant. If this episode is promising a better version of Planet Hulk than RAGNAROK, I'm all for it.

Dunno if you've noticed, but the MCU has been doing the joke-about-heroes'-names bit for the last several movies. Darn near every time each next character is introduced, unfortunately. It's starting to grate on me --too much self-effacement so normies don't feel alienated. For the last decade, Marvel Studios' workaround has been to have each character called by their real name; not their hero name. I'm betting that will be the case for She-Hulk/Jen as well, especially as "She-Hulk" was intentionally derivative in its conception. I put the onus on the comics for not renaming her since then.

I do really hope that's the twist with Blonski and he's working overtime to hide having an icy, sociopathic personality.Speaking sincerely, that's the best endorsement the shorts could have, and that makes them a success in my mind. They may not be for me, but that's ok-- the audiences that love them found them, and that's what truly matters C:

On the “gloating” angle, I think we’re looking too far into it. That felt like a teasing jab, and nothing more.

And as for Jen not liking being called She-Hulk, she hasn’t owned it yet. Yeah, she’s not gonna like it right off the bat, but she also hasn’t experienced much in the way of benefits from her She-Hulk form. Really, all it’s done so far is lose her her job, and then get her another one that makes her doubt her new employers take her seriously as a lawyer.

Side note: I love how just one descriptive word about Titania makes her completely unlikable. Ugh. She’s an influencer. Can’t wait to see her come back full force and get punched silly.

Good points.

I think that line from Bruce came across worse, because of all the drama from the first episode. But if we assume they basically made peace after “settling their differences”, then it’s easier to see it as friendly teasing. Sibling rivalry-ish

::sigh:: Turns out it's not a facade.

https://comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel...5529#gs.a45dmp

Bummer is that I really like INCREDIBLE HULK for being a decent, tense adaptation of the Bruce Jones run, and Abomination is among my favorite Marvel villains. I liked Tim Roth's performance in that film and I was hoping to have something like that here.

I get that the show's a comedy and it's going to do its comedy thing. I'm sure it will be a good version of itself by the time it's done... but I'm admittedly disappointed.

Haha I think our speculation that Emil was putting on a facade for Jen was the smarter, more interesting character choice!

And I don't think it's entirely off the table yet. MCU creatives are notoriously coy with details in interviews, you know, say as little as possible to avoid spoilers, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we ended up being entirely correct.

As much sense as his "I thought I was the good guy" schpiel makes at first, it falls apart under scrutiny, and his whole routine feels deliberately try-hard. Like he's going overboard to demonstrate that he's a changed man, a better man.

Either way, we'll see for sure in a couple of days, I think.