I'll tell you how... quad 'Mechs and water. Get Chikako or a SS Thunder Fox into water in front of their DZ post-haste. Then AO to get out from under pogs while still picking off their arty. JF Sylphs and ATVs are also great for taking on these :^^^: SS artillery. Sprint-JF Fenrir drops can do it as well. All of these are solid metagame elements that will leave you broadly effective while still planning to take on this monstrosity.

Looks like someone's trying to counter my warpog build for next week's unrestricted :-/

I've been exploring a new army building strategy. The main idea is to run a pair of 'mechs and a pair of artillery. High mobility is extremely important, so high speed values and good heat management are very important. Here's what I have so far...

:^^^: Thunder Fox - 140
> NAIS Graduate - 19
:^: Hellion - 112
> House Steiner Sergeant Major - 17
> Grapple - 15
:^^: Anat APC - 26
> :^^^: Towed Thunder Launchers - 26
> :^^: Towed Thunder Launcher - 24
:^: Minigun Cycle x2 - 16
:^: Scout ATV Squad x5 - 40
Faction Pride - 15
- 450 Points

Lots of blocking terrain, Ice Field (to cancel Swamp), Perfect Day (to cancel Subzero, Caustic, Dust Storm, Barrens).

I've found that the Lyran Thunder Fox and Hellion make an excellent tag team. The 'hammer Thunder Fox isn't as impressive as the SwSw varient w/ Sandoval, but it has better heat management and does 4 ArP damage w/ Faction Pride. The Hellion isn't as good as the RotS version either, but you can't argue with that Steiner heatdial (never thought I'd ever say that). The Anat carries the TTLs and is escorted by the Minigun Cycles so it can push if it has to. It salvages after 4, so I don't want to take pushing damage. Plus the Miniguns and the Anat make a startling attack formation with 12 attack and a possible 4 damage. ECM keeps it safe from "Yami" and the other indirect/Streaks ilk. The ATVs do the ATV thing. Grapple will allow the Hellion to hold down a big 'mech while I pog it. I'm questioning whether or not to throw Grapple out, switch the Steiner TTL to the 'hammer varient, and throw in two more ATVs or Miniguns...

The idea is to have the mobility to completely switch positions on the field in a the span of a single turn. Against a combined arms build, the idea would be to divide the enemies forces, reunite my 'mechs on one flank, and pick off parts of the army at a time. Most fatties die hard to two 'mechs anyway, so I worry little about that.

A note to myself is to never push the Anat to deploy the TTLs unless...

1. There's no enemy artillery (or it's been neutralized)
2. Enemy 'mechs are shutdown and my own 'mechs could use a turn to cool

Thoughts?

I dont know what thoughts are you looking for.

I can only assume you are entering something that faction Pure, as such I cant really comment on it. I think some DF combinations or Rots are stronger if SA are allowed well HK/SC/DF has some truly deadly options. Not knowing the parameters of the tournement make it hard to judge this.

If it is a Regular tournement you already gave the answer there are better pieces out there. SSw TF etc.

I totally agree that carried inf. art is better than old fashioned arty. But that is just a building block.

This army can not handle Shiros and Black Rose armies.

So a nice army 1 good element in there, the rest is subpar from a competitve vierwpoint. It has big weaknesses against RHDM.

But I judge all armies against top armies of those of Nationals and Worlds. I have the feeling that is not the thoughts you are looking for.

In any case good luck with it.

Regards
Elite130

Okay, smarty :cheeky:. Let's fix it then.

For the sake of "making it work", we'll say to #### with Faction Purity/Pride.

As you mentioned, the new "transportable" artillery is better than the old fashioned, so let's just assume keep the Anat and TTLs. I'd suggest maybe switching to the Liao varient, but I don't have one and don't know anyone who does, so I assume just stay with the 'hammer varient. EC is pretty useful anyway.

:^^: Anat APC - 26
> :^^^: Towed Thunder Launcher x2 - 52

That'll leave us for 372 points for a pair of 'mechs and maybe some ATVs, Sylph, etc.

As far as 'mech options, we've already mentioned...

:^^^: Hellion - 114
> An

Guh, stupid browser...

What other 'mechs would you suggest then? How would you make it work?

If you're feeling brave you could try a fast melee JF army and in this case Dust Storm is your friend.

JF pure
Jaguar w/ Star Commander and AnP
Mongoose w/ JP Millhew and IM
Mongoose w/ Lill Turner and IM
Slyph x2
Gnome
Raiden x2

The Mongooses all start with at least 4 damage CC attacks against elite units and it could be 5. Built in evade allows them to get across the field quickly. The Jaguar is a meatshield cleaner, threatens with TSEMP if need be and can get there fast if you don't mind a little heat. Slyphs do what they do and the rest fill in the blanks. Give yourself some puddles to jump and you can be in his face in 2 turns.

...Yeah, except the JF Mongoose sucks. Horribly. Even with Myomer.

Jaguar's a great option, though. A couple of those might give the arty fits... still, I think you'd probably be better off with a more shooty 'Mech.

"Black Rose" Shrike - 253
-Enrico Fernali - 47
-CJF Recruit - 16
x2 SW AIV - 49 x2
x3 LI ATV - 12 x3
-450pts

Have fun.

I had my numbers a bit mixed up but this should be correct
JF pure
Jaguar w/ Star Commander and AnP
Mongoose w/ JP Millhew and IM
Mongoose w/ Lill Turner and IM
Shamash
Slyph x2
Centaur
Elemental
Raiden x2
Ice Field, Heavy Fog, Dust Storm, Subzero and Caustic are all decent choices for PCs.

I'd disagree about the Mongoose. Its a decent little light Mech especially with either of those 2 pilots or even a star commander. 12 attacks 22 vs range/23 vs AO is still pretty good these days. There damage profile is low but that's what the IM does for it and its cheaper than pulse. I've been play testing one in a dual Mech force and he actually works pretty well. I've even used him as a moveable screen for a JF Goshawk when the PCs were against me.

600 points.
Any ideas for adapting that to 600-ish?
Also, I've only got one of those SW AIV's :(
I have 5 Liao ones though!

The thing is it doesn't work as well as it should in 600pts. The only real way you can get points against it is by going toe-to-toe with "Black Rose", which is also guarding the AIVs. A smart player using this army will simply keep his ATVs in his DZ, basically forcing the opponent to come to him. Even then, "Black Rose" can easily take out another 'Mech, or garner enough points to make your opponent have to drop what they're doing and blitz your pieces. Watch out for the last turn Charge!

You could add a fast-moving 'Mech like a Roku as a charge threat. That then gives you an extra unit to clean basers off the artillery and that can be discharged in the direction of the enemy as and when.

Here is a good example of the issues surrounding star ratings.

The new RVs have all been rated 5 star. Personally I rated two as 4 star and two as 3 star and only because I was rating them in terms of how good they were as RVs, not how competitive they are in the game but how they stack up if you want repair. From that perspective, they are actually pretty good but expensive and with only one role on the battlefield (which is what kept their ratings down in my eyes).

However I can also fully understand them getting a star less if one were to grade them on the basis of how competitive they are in the game as a whole.

And this is where I felt torn. Do I give the SH one a 4-star because its Reactive armor and dial length really do make it a very good repair vehicle, or do I give it a 3-star because whilst it's good, it isn't all that competitive? 42 points is a lot to spend on the off chance you need to repair something, at least it is in a 450 game. The 10 attack swings it a little in that you can be more confident of pulling that repair off than in the older sets (you can repair a 21 raw defense 50% of the time so that's very good). The decent arc also means better repair options.

At the same time, investing almost 10% of your build total in an RV seems a lot.

If you want a Bannsons/Swordsworn Situational alliance, then you're investing a staggering 16% of your build in a "trick" so you're going to have to use that "trick" to justify it.

So I can fully understand the case for giving all a 2-star with the CNC and SH ones perhaps managing to make a 3-star.

I don't understand 5-star. That means a unit is top of the crop. I don't think these are top of any crop. Compare these to the SSw J-37 with its 9 attack and 3-cap transport capability for a mere 26 points. THAT is 5-star utility. Less life and less repair but it's cheap and has more than one role (potentially it has three, though it only does two well). These are expensive specialised units in the same way as the Morningstars (except for the Kurita Morningstar, which I like because when it stops being a Command vehicle it becomes a just about passable mop-up tank).

Now here is an army that tries to make use of one ...
SA-007 Republic of the Sphere / House Liao Situational Alliance ... 30
Hellfire ... 208
Trebor Ydek ... 59
ER Ammo ... 37
Total unit cost ... 304
:^^^: Savior ... 44
x6 Liao ATV ... 72
Total ... 450

The idea is to use Ydek and the ATVs to get a clean shot in the first turn. Since you have 3 orders you can fire in formation with one order, taking 2 pushing damage, move an ATV with the second order and try and repair Ydek with the third, needing a 10 and so succeeding 62.5% of the time.

One-trick-ponyage to the max! :p

As usual, great analysis, and I pretty much mirrored it in my commentary on the preview thread... the Saviors are good role-players, but not top-tier by pretty much any stretch of the imagination. Also, you'll want to switch out two LI ATVs for two BR ATVs... the LI ones can't formation-help into the DZ first turn.