Ok, that puts things into a little more perspective. Mistakes happen. No big deal. Let's move on.

My post was directed at Zeb, because as I stated, he doesn't acknowlegde things for the way they are. It's a fact that comic companies use stuff from one another. But I find it hypocritical, to say well look at what DC does, as away to make Marvel appear to be better, when Marvel does the same thing. Historcially, it can be said that comic companies have ripped ideas off fromone another, to create their stories. I find Zeb's argument that Marvel is better because (list any of his lame ### reasons here), when essentially, his arguments are based on opinion or on similar things that BOTH companies have done.

As to the All-Star vs Ultimates thing..no one appears to have a clear interpretation as to what All-stars is going to be. That is the only thing about it that's evident. We'll find out what it's going to be soon enough.

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If you think me or others on here don't have any credibility, stop answer our posts.

I guess it can be said, that when you can say why Marvel is better than DC, without dragging DC's name through the mud, than a person can establish a reasonable level of credability. Argue your points about Marvel on their merits, not compared to DC. I love both companies, and hate when people drag one's stuff through the mud, to make the other seem better. This is clearly a matter of opinion and preferance. Nothing more.

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I also think its wrong to promote as a book as something its not. Its wrong of DC to promote IDC as a Universe changing book with character's dying when it didn't change anything the only characters who died who barely known wives of supporting hero's and it used cheap tatics to get some shock value. I think its wrong of them to promote Countdown the sameway if its just Blue Beetle whos going to die. If you read what I post I think Marvel is just as guilty with Ultimate War and the Enemy of the State stories, both promised to deliever something Marvel knew they didn't deliever.

I've argued this with you before, and have nothing more to add to the argument. All I'm going to say is that , IDC was more of a set up for the Universe changing things that you speak of. But you're right, a company should deliver on it's advertisement.

I don't care if characters are brought back. Rule #1 of comics, dead doesn't necessarily mean dead forever. The Jason Todd thing blew into speculation as a result of Hush-where Clayface molded himslef into a grown up version of Jason, and Jason's body was missing from it's grave. There was a follow up to Hush, in Detective Comics I believe, that increased the speculation. As of right now, I have no real reason to beleiev that Jason is back, and I wholeheartedly agree that Jason should not be brought back, since the fans voted him out.

Yes I'd much rather find out The Red Hood (in 'Batman') is a Joker come back from that Circus of Freaks (see the GKnights issue right before War Games)... a disciplined & combat dangerous Joker! If its Todd I hopee he dies & stays dead at the end of this... :shakes head:

The follow up (w/ Hush the Character) was in Gotham Knights (& is Hush stuff again now), but I think you're right about the Jason Todd stuff being discussed in Detective (the book currently dealing w/ the Riddler)... or is that LotDK... anyway different discussion, but I will say as that all 4 Batman stories at least are cohesive (vs. Spiderman).

As for this turning into a DC v. Marvel carp discussion I'd like to thank the regular fishermen (you know who you are) for getting us so far off track w/ the same old same old... you know this disscussion thread is a lot smaller w/ your comments ignored.

Well let's see ....If you read Gotham Knights then they are speculating that Jason Todd is Hush again . But I think the Red Hood is going end being Jason Todd in the next couple of issues. With the way Winnick is writing it. And just cause he was voted dead doesn't mean he can't come back.Besides I think Hush is going to end up being Harvey Dent. Yeah I said it. Go ahead blast me for it.

Harvey Dent?..Interestingly enough..it's plausible. Also, I think that IF they bring Jason back, the Red Hood guy has a better chance of being him, based on his actions. But hopefully, both the Hood and Hush, are completely new characters.

As for Countdown (since it is the topic of the thread)..Iknow Blue Beetle has a lot of love, but, I've never found him to be that interesting. If this is an attemot to put him at the forefront of the DCU...meh, is all I say.

No thats a good theory except Harvey doesn't have the Medical Knowledge to heal Prometheus... ahhh! I've got 3 hours before bed... its time to go reread a lot of GK & Batman issues... I'd like to think the one panel early on in the Jeph Loeb Hush arc would suggest that Harvey is half of Hush... My theory (to go w/ yours) is that Tommy is duel-personality & has to be tied up by Harvey when he goes Good-Tommy.

However the seemingly Uber-strong Hush that appears to massacre those hunters (or rather I should say it appears that thats supposed to be Hush who does massacre those hunters, but it never really says that) seems to me to be Luthor post battle w/ Batman & Supes in B/S#6... If that scene is Luthor, then Luthor could be partnered w/ Hush (Dent, Tommy, or Dent/Tommy) & have a real agenda (possibly w/ knowledge of Batman's Mind-wipe).

A third theory would be that Dent (post-Prometheus deal) whacked Tommy over the head & assumed the Mantle of Hush... This doiesn't however explain that panel from Loeb's run where it just has to be Harvey flipping that coin.

Now getting back on topic I think the new Red Hood is really Azereal(sp?) thought it could be pratically anyone..

And from what a freind told me the new colloation of villans is

Lex, Black Adam, Dr. Psycho (Wonder Woman Villian), Tailia, Calulator and ..I forgot the last one..

and it's looks like Aresnal is going to get killed by Deathstroke.. It make sense as revenge for what Ollie did. Eye for an eye.

Edit: Dammit I remebered it's Deathstroke. I think. What a great group. :D

Isn't Talia in hiding because she killed Ra's?

Also--she's never really been a villian--I'd be surprised if she were in on this.

i think that hush is going to end up being someone that really hates batman/ bruce wayne and knows that they are one in the same. And that he is using tommy elliot as a pawn in the whole thing. Someone from batman's past whose life was ruined by batman. that's my take on it.

the B-list has always been my favorite level to read because I feel you get better stories due to less restrictions. However since DC is better at Continuity you get stories trhat make sence. Right Now Deadshot & JLA Classified #4-whenever are my favorite reads for escapism. For Mystery I'm pleasently happy I can go to Batman (haven't read much post-crisis Bats) & Flash is really where its at for Solo-heroism. That leaves JSA for continuity love, Outsides for Super team, & Teen Titans for conspiricy building.

for Cop drama I have Distict X, Spiderman gives me Flash-esque quality, & Bendis's Daredevil (despite being seen by many as hack/rip-off writing) is a great read for me because I've never read Daredevil before. I'm not really sure why I buy 2 Capt. America comics since hes long been my least favorite character, but Priest is writing one (really well too, but its getting axed) & the other really grabbed me w/ issue #1 (though is losing my interest fast).

The Question, Manhunter, & GL: Rebirth are all decent, but now I'm running out of stuff I buy every month

oh yeah im a fan of both marvel and of dc andthey both use ideas from each other as long as its a good read who cares if its ripped off

The female shadow is Cheshire [as seen at the end of Manhunter... current issue (9?)] & I take it Dr. Psycho is the short one... that still leaves the tall guy thats behind Calculator in a Flash issue a couple months back... either Vandal Savage &/or whoever Luthor's partner is (as Luthor is probably the shadow standing next to the guy in question).

Hush Spoilers(?) ahead...

Well after skimming through 'Hush' again Harvey was Definitely Hush for #614 & #615 (he probably shot Clayface & then revealed himself to Joker in the next issue). If hes also Hush when "Hush" cuts out the Picture of a post surgery Bruce, then hes Hush proper. That Hush's face seems 100% burned or something... that could be a pre-procedure Harvey... Not Clayface (who would have no reason to say the quote hes saying...) All this leads back to my thoughts on Tommy being Schytso(sp?) & so only Hush sometimes... This leaves Harvey to play the role of ZOOM! (see Flash's current story) to Batman... This is soo fun (even though if I'm wrong it may feel like a slight let down...)!

Everything I've read about it in Wizard from the writers and artists involved basically say its a new contunity that will use a "classic" version of the characters. I know the DC guys like to say "Marvel is re-enventning" their characters in Ultimate and DC will just be a retelling, but from I've seen they are bringing new things to Superman and Batman too. Its the samething.

So far those have been let downs too (at least from what I've seen). Robin cried, but after that his father was forgotten. Dr. Light wants to beat the Titans to show hes not a joke, but do you see him doing anything of note to them in their fight in the next book? Probably not. He'll get beat just like he did when he was a joke - back to the status quo.

You can bring him back, but the fans already had their say with the character. To bring him back is a slap in the face - you said you want him dead, and for a while we listened, but in the end we don't care, we want him so hes coming back. And that is another complaint of mine about Hush (among others) -at the end of the year there was no answer to themystery.

Oh & After re-reading Batman #635 Red Hood can't be Joker because his wrists show him to be a caucasian male, not Joker White skin. I hope its anybody but Jason...

Probably true. But in fairness, he is a bad guy facing a group of heroes, so history dictates that he'll probably get his ### handed to him. But I trust Johns to do something noteworthy with this.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, which other IDC related stories, have you read? I haven't read the last issue of Adventures..but last issue set up some pretty cool stuff.

Countdown, appears to be the continuation of IDC. Flash's story seems to be the Prologue for the Rogues War. And I'm sure that there has to be something done to deal with the Atom, Firestorm, and eventually even more with Robin.

But that's just me.