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Civil war ruined Marvel comics for me. I bought between 15 to 25 different titles monthly. I don't care for the direction of the Marvel Universe. We live in an approaching police state, so I don't want to read about it.
Thanks Joe Q, you're saving me at least $100 monthly.
In the end, Maria Hill started it all.
Secret Wars started this, with Fury getting dropped out of SHIELD. Fury knew how to work with heroes. Hill did not.
The explosion at a school would never have happened if, say, the Avengers were handling it. There would have been an infiltration, and before the villains could get into costume, Iron Man would have shut Nitro down (so as not to allow him to boom), and even if he HAD exploded, it would have been in his home, not at a school a block away.
Iron Man knew that the government wanted to make ALL superheroes illegal, and so he helped create a middle ground: the Superhero Registration Act.
Maria Hill presented this to Captain America not in a peaceful, informative way, but aggressively (because unlike Fury, she wasn't confident in her power, and chose to show her claws rather than trust that Cap knew she had them). This forced Cap's hand, and from there out he went too far (Cap's mistake, as caused by Hill).
Iron Man was not told the details of this incident, only that Cap had beat up a ton of SHIELD agents and went rogue. Believing that Cap was likely to oppose the Registration Act, these all seemed very reasonable things for Cap to do, if properly motivated. So Stark, thinking Cap just went rogue without being provoked, offered to bring him in. From there, he went on to go too far (Iron Man's mistake, caused by Hill).
It's all about a lack of good communication, and when Cap saw at the end that what HE believed was no longer in America's best interest but in his own, he backed down. He is, after all, a good soldier, and he knows who he's supposed to protect.
Now, you may disagree about the act, but it IS law, and breaking a law is NOT acceptable no matter who you are. Cap WAS acting as a criminal, and arguably a terrorist. On the other hand, Tony was a part of a government police state, and while it wasn't so much illegal, it was immoral. Both made mistakes, one following his heart, one following his mind.
If I could rep you I would....that's the most well thought look at this whole story!
Contrary to popular belief, I do know what I'm doing
Now, you may disagree about the act, but it IS law, and breaking a law is NOT acceptable no matter who you are. Cap WAS acting as a criminal, and arguably a terrorist. On the other hand, Tony was a part of a government police state, and while it wasn't so much illegal, it was immoral. Both made mistakes, one following his heart, one following his mind.
This is a law which was attained through duplicitous means though. From the very beginning, before CW, internal factors were already leading up to Registration. Iron Man and his Illuminati knew ahead of time that the act was coming. But rather than engaging fellow heroes who would be affected in discussion Tony made the executive decision to support Registration before it was even presented to the government. By the time Cap even knew Registration was coming he was too late to protest it through legal channels. Evidence of that was SHIELD's attempt to arrest him before the act even passed, thus preventing any unified opposition. To that end, Registration itself is unconstitutional because it's acceptance was only possible by infringing on freedom of speech.
I suppose Cap didn't have to fight. He could have rolled over and just let the totalitarian law take over while he sat in a POW camp. But that's just not his character. And ultimately his giving up shows a lot more character as a patriot. Knowing the potential damage from the continued struggle Cap backed down because Tony wouldn't. Still a lame ending which seemed to come out of nowhere.
Quoting from the article, if you don't want to scroll through everything (last paragraph):
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TONY STARK: NOW AND FOREVER, A TOTAL JERKWAD
For months on end and over a seemingly countless number of crossover books, Marvel has straddled the fence on Tony Stark's and Captain America's characterizations throughout Civil War, ensuring that neither could be presented as strictly the "hero" or the "villain"-until now. Paul Jenkins, in wrapping up this 11-part Civil War tie-in series, completely blows that ambiguous distinction out of the water when reporters Ben Urich and Sally Floyd present incontrovertible evidence that Stark-in a move reminiscent of Vice President Dick Cheney's alleged involvement with government contractor Haliburton during the second Iraq war-manipulated events to not only cause the Civil War, but to profit from it and improve his standing in the United States. According to the reporters, Stark helped rush the registration law through confirmation; purposefully built a harsh mega-prison in the Negative Zone to coerce heroes into helping him; enlisted costumed supervillains to aid his cause; manipulated Norman Osborn and caused him to try and murder an Atlantean political delegate (then covered up his own involvement); profited off the near-assassination by manipulating the stock market and funneled over $90 million into a secret Swiss bank account, which he then used as a trust to provide help to rescue workers (and registered heroes); and he risked war with Atlantis because he concluded the U.S. would win because of its growing ranks of registered heroes. Yet despite all this so-called proof, Floyd and Urich simply walk out of Stark's office with the lamest excuse-and biggest insult to investigative journalism-ever written for a comic book: "We'd never jeopardize what you're trying to accomplish." Somewhere, Woodward and Bernstein are throwing a fit at this journalistic oversight. But that's not even how the story ends: Tony Stark stares out the window, then breaks down into uncontrollable tears and throws his Iron Man helmet in a petulant fit, ostensibly because he's been caught?!? Kind of like what I did after reading this incomprehensible story.
Last edited by malakim2099; 02/28/2007 at 17:23..
Reason: Spoiler Alert not included! Oops!
Quote : Originally Posted by hail_eris
Little known fact - the "M" in M. Bison actually stands for "malakim2099."
Quoting from the article, if you don't want to scroll through everything (last paragraph):
should i bother to read it?
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"I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with great satisfaction." -- Mark Twain
Having just re-read Civil War start to finish, it's clear that this is what Millar was setting up the whole time. Captain America never even considers going through channels, testifying before Congress, challenging the legality of the Registration Act in court, or any kind of peaceful protest. He just immediately chooses going underground and fighting, and his charisma means other heroes follow.
If I remember Civil War #1 correctly, as you should if you have just read it, Captain America wasn't given the opportunity to peacefully protest, challenge the legality in court, testify before Congress, or otherwise 'consider' going through the proper channels.
He was confronted, by SHIELD, before the law even went into effect -- at the point of many, many guns -- and told to sign the papers or go to jail.
SHIELD didn't give Captain America the opportunity to do anything but fight.
Quote : Originally Posted by hair10, Gentlegamer, doctorfate77, d_knight7, etc.
JacinB is right.
Quote : Originally Posted by Lore Sjöberg
Superman-based interactive entertainment products tend to be very bad, because an accurate Superman game would have one button labeled "Use Powers" and you would press it and win.
Hey, it's Wizards' weekly recap of Civil War. Read it or not, it's up to you. But I think I captured the meat of it from the snippet I included.
(And I mainly included the link so that people didn't think I was just making this stuff up myself.)
not being negitive I was wondering if there was anything good about it or if it was just awful
.................................................. ........
"I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with great satisfaction." -- Mark Twain
If I remember Civil War #1 correctly, as you should if you have just read it, Captain America wasn't given the opportunity to peacefully protest, challenge the legality in court, testify before Congress, or otherwise 'consider' going through the proper channels.
He was confronted, by SHIELD, before the law even went into effect -- at the point of many, many guns -- and told to sign the papers or go to jail.
SHIELD didn't give Captain America the opportunity to do anything but fight.
shield was deffinetly in the wrong in that confrontation, but its not like cap could not have gotten to reporters etc, I lack the energy for a good debate at the moment a friend passed on and I find myself feeling very old at the moment
.................................................. ........
"I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with great satisfaction." -- Mark Twain
not being negitive I was wondering if there was anything good about it or if it was just awful
No worries, sometimes with tempers getting heated about this, I prefer to err on the side of defensiveness.
I thought the synopsis was good... and the storyline... well, if that didn't make Civil War WORST SERIES EVER before, it definitely does now. So much for investigative journalism.
Quote : Originally Posted by hail_eris
Little known fact - the "M" in M. Bison actually stands for "malakim2099."
Ah my favorite part you didn't mention from the recap....
SPOILERS
She claims that because he doesn't know what Americans are about anymore and because he's fighting for an ideal of America instead of things like high cholesterol, MySpace and Paris Hilton (because that's what Americans care about), he has torn the new America apart.
Guh? So... Cap's wrong because... he's fighting for a better America? Seriously? He's wrong because the US as a society have degenerated into a bunch of fat, internet nerds who are a former shell of what America used to be?
Did Captain America really fail the Marvel US here? I'd argue the Marvel US are the ones who failed Captain America.
Quote
In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces
If I remember Civil War #1 correctly, as you should if you have just read it, Captain America wasn't given the opportunity to peacefully protest, challenge the legality in court, testify before Congress, or otherwise 'consider' going through the proper channels.
He was confronted, by SHIELD, before the law even went into effect -- at the point of many, many guns -- and told to sign the papers or go to jail.
SHIELD didn't give Captain America the opportunity to do anything but fight.