Nightwing year 1 he did.

The current Jason Todd, is the old Jason Todd, unless you're aware of information that I'm not aware of! Again, you may not like the resurrection, the reason behind it, or anything about it, but you can't deny that he is a fully functioning Jason Todd once again. I know I've been following somebody for about 3 years now, and to me, it's Jason Todd, not "Jason Todd."

llyrghmnghyll, that's not too bad a start on an exp Red Hood. In general, I think the exp or vet version would be a little better than that, and at a higher point cost obviously, but it is a good start. I wouldn't mind seeing some front-loaded blades, maybe a Blades/Energy Explosion special power. The thing that I don't like about the dial, is that in general, it's not all that more special than a Sinister Vet Shield Agent, or some of the other generic figures we've seen lately. The recent Black Canary is a travesty, and I think, in general game terms, an Exp Red Hood, and a current Black Canary should be worth much more than 50 points.

I understand about the x vs y thing, but even some of Batman's all-time villians haven't figured a way to really defeat him, so I don't think that proves anything. Also, is it possible that Jason could at least hold his own against the Penguin, Poison Ivy, the Riddler, the Joker (obviously he already has), any version of Clayface, Mr. Freeze (he has), Black Mask (he has), or Killer Moth??? Of course it's possible, and he has held his own against Black Mask and Mr. Freeze already, in addition to Bruce, Tim, Dick, and others.

Based on Countdown alone though, Jason has proven that he can think on his feet, and deal with things that are way out of his league in a cosmic way, even dealing with the Authority, Lord Havok, Monarch, vampires, and the very nature of the cosmos itself. Honestly, it just is written proof that he can be more than a one-dimensional character, and not just a plot device.

No doubt, I don't want to see a 1000 point Batman, but it would be nice to see one that displays him at his peak efficiency, and peak power set. The Icons Vet at 119 points is a start, and the Vet Legacy one is awesome no doubt, but with the new special powers, I'd like to see an uber-planning version of Batman, specifically from the JLA pages.

Jackofhearts, I understand that some of the match-ups would give Jason fits, but in a lot of ways, he would give as good as he gets. If you throw Jason and the Creeper in the arena, no weapons, yes Jason will get his throat torn out. However, if you allow Jason to use his MO as the Creeper would use his normal MO, I think he stands more than a fighting chance using his firearms, explosives, and knife. This is true for most characters, if you take Kyle's ring, the Creeper will rip his heart out. It doesn't mean that the Creeper is a better, stronger, or more important character though.

As you said about Merlyn, yes, bring your arrows and do your worst, but again, if Jason is allowed his full complement of armament, I'm just not sure what the outcome of that battle would be, and only the current DC editiorial staff would know what the outcome would be. Based on current abilities and MO, I'd put my money on Jason.

I would never say outright that Jason is better than Tim or anyone on that list, but to totally dismiss his abilities and fighting skills, especially based on the last 3 years would be a disservice to Jason's current incarnation.

A lot of the matchups discussed will never be seen on a comic book page. I just think that due to the controversial nature of the character, in life, in death, and in life again, that many seasoned and casual comic book readers (and game players) are quick to dismiss Jason Todd and his abilities and accomplishments, however jerkily he is portrayed as a character. But being written as a jerk sure hasn't stopped a lot of other super-hero characters (Iron Man, Lobo, Reed Richards, Namor, Batman, Oliver Queen, etc.)

Have you read any books with Jason Todd as Robin? That isn't the same character running around now. Jason Todd was annoying but in the end, he was a hero. The Red Hood has not a heroic bone in his body. When he dies, he'll be retconned into being a clone or something I'm sure.
Whoa there. Lets not be hasty. If we based everything on Countdown alone, comic books wouldn't be worth reading.
1 arrow down the barrel of his pistol
2 arrow to the neck

Game. Set. Match.

Like I said, the Red Hood might be a match for Green Arrow's 16 year old girl sidekick, but he's no match for Merlyn.

Jason Todd returned from the grave only to learn that Batman had not taken vengeance for him! Throw in some crazy-making Lazarus Pit action and you best not try to write "Jason Todd" to be a duplicate of the original pre-dead Jason Todd, superhero scamp.

Jason Todd never went to a Laz Pit, IIRC.

He came back when Super*****-Prime punched a wall.

Do you remember how Jason Todd died? He died trying to save his mother, even though she had betrayed him and even though he knew if he died it would be her fault as much as the Joker's.

I don't care if he did take a soak in a Lazarus Pit. Jason would not go from forgiveness to "how dare you not kill him" especially after being in heaven for that long.

If anything, he should be more at peace with his death than before.

No, the Red Hood is not the original Jason Todd. He's gotta be from an alternate earth or he's a clone or something.

Hey all, yes, it was a Superboy-Prime crystal wall punch which "fixed" history and brought Jason Todd back to life. Unfortunately, he was buried 6 feet under at the time, so upon resurrection, he had to dig himself out of his grave. In addition, the injuries that he sustained from the Joker and the explosion that killed him were still present!!! He walked 12 miles randomly, looking for help, or looking for Bruce most likely, and was finally discovered by someone who took him to a hospital, and of course they couldn't explain the injuries, or the fact that he was in a perfect suit, with the injuries below his suit. The doctors even remarked on that.

Anyway, they searched for anyone who had a missing boy, but unfortunately, no one did, including Bruce. His boy wasn't missing, he was dead. So Jason is catatonic, recovers from the injuries, and then wigs out and escapes the long-term hospital he was in. A guy on the street recognizes his moves as he beats up a guy who was picking on him, and eventually, Talia finds out Jason is alive.

She takes care of him, and Ras allows it out of respect for her AND Bruce. Eventually, Ras gets tired of it, and wants to get rid of Jason, but before he can, she throws Jason in the Lazarus pit with Ras. Jason regains his memories, all of them, and presumably gets a little crazy in the process, and maybe gains additional strength in the process.

Talia pulls him out of the pit, gives him a briefcase full of info and money and throws him off a cliff into the water, where she says to him "You remain unavenged." In a way, Talia is the one who puts the unavenged idea in his head, and she supports him financially and everything while he undergoes the EXACT same training Bruce did to become Batman, and this obviously occurs over a number of years, so Jason had lots of time to grow up physically, while learning most, if not all, of the skills and knowledge that Bruce had acquired. It's interesting, because during 52, Bruce, Tim, and Dick all did the training bit, so in essence, all the Robins have now been through the intensive training that Bruce went through, not counting their Gotham City training they had already received.

So, return from the dead? Check. Lazarus Pit? Check. Unavenged, with the Joker still running around like a fool? Check. Bad influence from Talia? Check. Major, fatal head injuries in the past? Check.

Yeah, I think Jason's overall characterization as depicted since his resurrection would be pretty accurate for all of us. Jason's still a hero, but there's been so much that got in the way of that, that he was thoroughly confused for a while. As we see in Countdown and the assorted spin-offs, it does appear he is softening a bit, especially given his ability to be around the Jokester without killing him, and his fondness for the Gotham by Gaslight Gotham City, and most importantly, the Gotham by Gaslight Batman. He said to himself, that he wouldn't mind staying there, he felt comfortable there.

There's more to being a hero than just always doing the right thing, it's realizing when you've done the wrong thing, and tried to change yourself because of it.

He's not a clone, not an alternate, not a dream. If any of us went through all that, we'd be a bit angry as well. Jason feels that Bruce allowed the Joker to take him away from Bruce, and then, didn't punish him one bit after the fact. Heck yeah, I'd be a little sore at Bruce.

EDIT: Just curious Jackofhearts and madslaust, you didn't read Batman Annual # 25, did you? It's good!

Sure doesn't act like it.

Another thing he has thus far failed to do. Frank Castle looks more like a hero then the Red Hood by a large margin. Beating up random people half his age so he can feel better about nobody really loving him?

That isn't heroic.

Neither murder.

And like Tim said, he really is that much better than RH.

I don't think Tim would have begged Bruce to kill Captain Boomerang if he had lived.

I don't feel the real Jason Todd would have been angry at Batman for that either. I think he'd feel the need to beat the Joker but not kill him.

The lack of a statue in Titans Tower was a legitamate complaint, though. That was pretty harsh.
Yeah, I did. It was a retcon that didn't make sense and showed a guy who was supposedly Jason Todd doing lots of things that Jason Todd wouldn't do. That, and Superboy Prime punching the concept of reality is stupid.

Wow that a beautiful headache. Thank god I haven't been reading comics that long, my OCD would rip a demon outta me.

It's not even close to a legitimate complaint. Titans who were on the team way, way longer than Jason Todd and are dead to boot don't have memorials of any sort.

He was a Titan for, what, two months or so? Some exceedingly short amount of time regardless. And, unless I'm mistaken, on the other side of the country. In a different Titans tower. Presumably with a different team entirely.

Whats betting they say something like Jason Todd from earth 1 got combined with Jason Todd from Earth 3. They did show that Talon followed Joker's Daughter into the multiverse.

Jason Todd was a lousy Hero. He couldn't sit still, wouldn't listen to his leaders and didn't know who and how to trust and partially trust. He died because Bruce thought he could make anyone a Robin, and Bruce was wrong.

Jason Todd knew the difference between right and wrong, but he had seen how wrong could work, and he didn't have the patience to understand right.

The Red Hood was the Jason Todd that Bruce taught, theres no issue there. He is Bruce's greatest failure. You say he was fighting to save the life of his mother who betrayed him, that is not what a hero would do. A hero would fight to find and protect the drugs which could be used to save thousands of lives, the life of the mother be damned unless she's there to help.

Jason Todd was a simple street Thug who had been given multiple opportunities to achieve as a hero, but he threw them away for easy answers: belief in parents who had run out on him, belief that a costumed hero held the answers, and belief that vengeance would give him peace. None did of course. Bruce wanted to believe he could make a street thug into a hero, not for the reason he probably told himself, "because everyone has some good in themself" That he knew to be true. Todd would've made a fine upstanding citizen. The reason Bruce wanted to believe he could make a street thug into a hero was because he wanted to believe he was no different than a street thug, and just as a street thug could be changed into a hero, he could be changed into a citizen. Neither of these was true.

Had Bruce given Jason up to authorities and watched over him he might've come out alright. A kid from an amoral background becomes a decent fella. Bruce ruined that opportunity when he expected as much out of Jason as he did out of himself.

Not everyone is cut out to be a Hero, but those who are cut out to be heroes will probably never be content as citizens, and the latter is more of a tragedy than the former.

I'm not saying Jason was a good hero in terms of always doing the right thing or in overall competance or popularity. I'm just saying he was a hero.

The Red Hood doesn't seem to know right from wrong at all. I don't see him as a hero by any stretch of the imagination.

Kole got a statue. She existed what? A year and a half? Hawk and Dove weren't titans for very long either. There are a lot of dead Titans that could complain (though most wouldn't bother and it becomes a bit of a moot point if you come back).

I don't mean he should have beaten up Tim and destroyed a statue, but he deserved one as much as some of the people who had one.

3 Red Hood's helmet shields him from the arrow
4 Red Hood uses the detonator in his other hand to blow up the building Merlyn was in.

Game. Set. Match.

Jason Todd as Robin would be somewhere around 40 points. Jason Todd after much training, ruthlessness, as the Red Hood: 62-68 points. Not up Batman because he has a lot more experience, but close. Can beat Tim, and other sidekicks, and is up to par with Nightwing. The difference they have with skill, is because of the fact that Jason has less care for innocents getting in the line of fire, and is more ruthless.

As for the whole resurrection, after reading the Hush again, it clearly leaves a Jason Todd filled hole in the plot. Superboy Prime hitting a wall was the method used to bring Todd back alive, nothing more. If not for this, then they would have used something else to bring him back so that the Hush storyline would have more edge. It's not like they created a holw where to put Jason, the hole was already there.

And if I remember correctly, it wasn't just Green Arrow's girl sidekick, it was also Green Arrow's son, that's two skilled bowmasters Jason was against.

Well if we're gonna play that way, Merlyn uses his own detonator to blow up the city that the Red Hood is in and everybody loses.

And RH's mask sure covers his neck doesn't it?
I agree. However, they didn't use the hole provided in Hush. Hush provided a hole in the form of Jason's body not being in it's grave. Nothing more. Nothing less. Under the Hood2 retconned Hush, which was entirely unnecessary because Hush has provided a hole for Jason to return. They didn't need to change anything.
You must be thinking of Constantine Drakon.

Red Hood vs Connor and Mia would be ridiculous. Connor is one of the best martial artists in DC and he's well practiced at shooting an arrow down the barrel of a gun. Just Connor vs Red Hood is a complete wash. Throwing Mia in would be unneccessary.