2nd Post updated with some discussion material.

I'm a big proponent of streamlining the game for greater learnability and more fluid gameplay on the map.

I think some of the changes you've proposed are GREAT towards that end, but many could be trimmed up, rethought, or done away with in favor of the streamlined approach.

My ideal, would be superpowers summed up on the PAC in just a sentence or two at the most. Things like your tiered damage reduction add a layer of complication, but to counterbalance that it is also a sensible step in the right direction when it comes to the logical sequence of the game.

Logical sequence of events can do as much or MORE to help the game's fluidity than trimming fat from power mechanics.
Stealth makes MORE sense if the stealth-er doesn't block line of fire to people behind him.
All line of sight is easier to figure out if adjacent figures can always draw a line to each other, no matter what (stealth, holding hands, etc)

For powers like BCF, it's been simple since the beginning and popular... I don't see a need to change ones like that. Impervious could use a revamp, and with the recent dearth of great damage reduction Special Powers with simple mechanics (doomsday, superman prime, etc) working one of those as a new impervious mechanic would be a simple solution to the longstanding problem.

In terms of streamlining and balancing Outwit versus Damage Reduction, I have long been pondering if introducing tables would be a good idea. Tables offer a great deal of flexibility. They don't have to be linear, can account for threshhold values and tables can be adjusted as the game evolves.

Tables can be easy to use, if they are set up right and if there are not too many of them. As an idea, I put together two tables for resolving damage (which would also eliminate the die roll for IMP). One table would be applicable for standard attacks and one for "armor piercing" attacks. The armor piercing damage would be used for PW, EW, PB and if Outwit was used on the damage reducer.


Standard Attack Table (Table 1):

.................................Damage Taken..........
Damage Dealt.......Standard....Tou....INV.....IMP
........01..................01..........00.....00.......00
........02..................02..........01.....00.......00
........03..................03..........02.....01.......01
........04..................04..........02.....01.......01
........05..................05..........03.....02.......02
........06..................06..........04.....03.......02
........07..................07..........05.....03.......03
........08..................08..........05.....04.......03
........09..................09..........06.....05.......04
........10..................10..........07.....05.......04
........11..................11..........08.....06.......05
........12..................12..........08.....07.......05


Armor Piercing Attack Table (Table 2) (PW, EW, PB & Outwit):

..................................Damage Taken..........
Damage Dealt.......Standard....Tou....INV.....IMP
........01..................01..........01.....01.......01
........02..................02..........02.....01.......01
........03..................03..........02.....02.......02
........04..................04..........03.....03.......02
........05..................05..........04.....03.......03
........06..................06..........05.....04.......03
........07..................07..........05.....05.......04
........08..................08..........06.....05.......04
........09..................09..........07.....06.......05
........10..................10..........08.....07.......05
........11..................11..........08.....07.......06
........12..................12..........09.....08.......06

Yeah the line of fire question always slows down the game. Games would move much more smoothly if characters could just see each other unless they are behind a wall,character without stealth or blocking terrain (Barrier).

Not sure if this would hamper strategy to much, but I like the concept.

While it would run smoother, it would seem weird to be able to say "ok, I'm taking a shot at Wasp, who is on the other side of the Hulk."

How many hulks have stealth? XD

He's not talking about Stealth, he's suggesting that ALL characters should be ignored for Line of Fire:

But to answer your question, 3. Including the one right behind you!

I was commenting on the stealth LOF. Guess I left that part out. It was poorly worded.

Very interesting concept. I think that it's more complicated then I'd like to see the game, however thank you very much for putting this concept together. Are there any specific patterns that the tables you made follow or did you just do what you felt would be the most balanced?

It's been a while since I put those together, so I don't remember exactly what the formulas where, but there is a pattern behind these tables. Probably I have some notes somewhere, but not here at work. Will have to look when I get home.

Anyway, the pattern for the standard attack went along the lines of:
subtract a fixed value, then reduce the rest by a certain percentage. I think it was -25% for Toughness, -33% for INV and -50% for IMP.

The pattern for the armor piercing table is basically the same, just without the subtraction of a fixed value.


I never really liked the "threshold" system for damage reducers of the official HC rules. You either overcome the damage absorber or not. If you do, each point of damage is translates directly into damage taken. If for example a figure with a damage value of 3 attacks an opponent with INV, he deals 1 damage. With a +3 on Damage (e.g. through Perplex), the damage taken is 4, i.e. of those extra 3 points on damage nothing is absorbed by the Defense Power. Therefor I tried to come up with a system that allows for the immunity versus low damage values, but also reduces some damage above the threshold.

In principle this is also the motivation behind the armor piercing table. Figures with Damage Absorbers can still be hurt by a successful attack, but their armors, thick hides or force fields still offer a little bit of protection. Especially for Pulse Wave there's a strong case, IMO, that the damage absorbers should lessen the effect to some extent. Since some of the Psychic Blast slots given out, represent special ammunition types and such, I think it's fair to let the armour of the target have some influence. Especially compared to a totally unprotected target.

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to playtest these tables, yet, but I have played other games with tables before. Usually after a couple of games you have the most relevant entries memorised anyway. Therefor I'm not fully convinced that adding two tables would increase the complexity so much (if it all). After all, there's not even the slightest math needed to use those tables. In the end it might even play out as fast as the current system.

The major problem with this system, is the advent of Special Powers, though. You'd either have to play them as written (i.e. unbalancing them vs the standard powers) or make new tables/rules for each new type of damage absorber that comes to the game. Those damned special powers create more problems than they solve...

I've never been a fan of Ultra's rules and ideas mostly. So I'll keep my comments as polite as possible.

The bcf change is a bad idea because it makes it so that low level figures can more so stomp big figures. A chance for a +3 damage buff on top of 2 or 3 damage puts the figure in a different leauge of power. Not only that if you perplex the damage value of the bcf attacker you have a higher chance of getting that +3 damage you are looking for. So over all i don't think that changing bcf is a good thing. Any combos with bcf is very unstable damage.

Changing hss more isn't nessecary. There are a lot of changes recently that really really tones it down. Most hss figures now don't have high movement and high range.

I like the force blast ideas. Props on that.

Outwits only change that should have been made is that if you are adjacent to a stealth figure you have to roll a 4 or better to outwit them. That's the best I can see while keeping both powers balanced.

Changing charge/flurry combo is a bad idea. It is balanced because it makes bricks and melee viable outside of hss. This is what melee has needed for a while.

Damage reducers should not be changed. Impervious is already a pain. Also the way its worded or the changes purposed with nerf psi blast and exploit weakness. Those two powers are there to make damage reducers a risk. It is easy to look at the 150+ impervious investment but its easy to over look some cheap figures with impervious. The problem is that the backward compatibility with what your proposing to older clix would make some even worse combo's then your fixing. The various level of defensive powers has been solved with special powers in my opinion.

If you perplex the damage of ANY figure you have a higher chance of getting the damage you were looking for. A perplex on damage + close combat expert is identical to a figure having my proposed blades/claws/fangs change. If you think that's so overpowered on low point figures, perhaps you should realize it exists in the game currently. The difference being that close combat expert scales with damage and it always good, and blades/claws/fangs doesn't, it gets worse and worse the more expensive the figure it's on and the higher damage value that they possess. However the "risk" factor of blades/claws/fangs is gone with my proposal, so perhaps I should have it be -1 damage to start off with, it is still possible to deal less damage then you would have without using it, I'll consider that.
There have been no changes recently that have toned it down. Several rule sets ago range was halved when it was used. It recently lost option 2, which high point HHS + super strength pieces never used. HSS+object+runaway is the kind of thing that makes the original Black Adam and rookie Shazzam too powerful.

Force blast definitely needs some love.

I don't even propose a change to outwit, although yours is interesting.

I just think Charge/flurry is too strong. It is not fun to have 2 pieces, the first one that connects with the other wins. Pieces doing 10 damage in a single turn is very, VERY powerful. Pieces that can move and attack and do that too just ruin games. The game becomes as follows. You have an all ranged team, or a piece that has charge/flurry. Having anything else is foolish. No piece without charge/flurry can compete with one that does have it, and if your opponent has it, you're forced to use all ranged pieces to take it out because letting it get near your is suicide. 100's of bricks that used to be able to do what is considered "big damage" become obsolete, because 6 damage isn't as good as 10 damage, and their mobility advantage against pieces that could do 10 damage is now gone, because they get both charge AND flurry.

I do think damage reducers need to be changed, but I think you misunderstand how I want them to be affected. Psychic blast and Exploit weakness still ignore them completely has they always have. Every time you play a figure over 120 points you shouldn't be FORCED to put fortitude on them playable. While you are correct that this would make some characters very tough for their points at lower levels (like Diamond Lil for example), it just promotes more balanced team building. Instead of throwing on 3 outwitters and being covered for every possible situation, now you might have to add a psy blast or exploit weakness character to your team in case your opponent goes with a heavy reducers team.

Thank you for the great comments.

Good discussion! I'll be back later with comments.

Looking forward to it.

Some great ideas here...My feedback and thoughts follows
A fix to flurry is unneeded....just more careful dial design

Charge seems fine to me as is...

Plasticity is brilliant-good idea

Impervious is too good by your version...but a neat idea. I like what you did with Invulnerability

Stealth is a great fix...

Regeneration is fine with auto-regen...they just need to reprint it more often...

GREAT fix to blades, claws, fangs....in fact, best rules fix that I have EVER SEEN!