Counting the REV sets are like comparing apples and oranges. Those sets were also 150-160 figures per set, and with the REV system, sculpt re-use for those was expected.

If you want to count apples to apples, we'd have to do this for all Topps-released HeroClix 2.0 sets, that is from Avengers to Hammer of Thor, in which case sculpt re-use (besides for LEs), was practically unheard of.

It wasn't until NECA's first set they developed, Brave and the Bold, that we started seeing sculpt re-use, which peaked to epidemic levels in Incredible Hulk. But even GSX and Captain America got a bit carried away with it as well.

Yep, generics. Nova Corps vs. Kryptonians or Green Lantern Corps would rock.

I agree. I've ran a Nova Corps team in the past, it was fun. These figures will make it even more so.

I agree with you on the wording. I like the traits, but you make valid points. We all know WizKids doesn't believe in K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), after all, if everything was worded in a simple manner, like you describe, what would the rules arbiters do? They'd be out of jobs, and we wouldn't have a 150 page Player's Errata Book.

Valid points, see my reply to CombatNinja.

Agreed. See my reply to Combat Ninja.

I do like the point values being even on these. Makes it easy for team building. But then again, with the 50 and 100 PVs, are they actually costed properly? It makes me wonder, as I've stated before, is there really a point formula, or did WizKids cost these this way just for convenience?

You don't expect WizKids to get this type of stuff right, do you? They struggle with keywords as it is. I mean, it's not like we have Marvel.com, Marvel Wiki, Wikipedia, ComicVine, and a slew of other resource sites to actually see that Rookie Daredevil shouldn't have the Marvel Knights keyword, or that Silver Centurion Iron Man should have the WCA, and not the Avengers keyword. I'm just sayin'

Very true. The generics from the REV sets were ALWAYS different sculpts.

In addition to these points, you also have to consider how the "watered down" version of these powers save points. You want the Defenders TA? OK, now they cost 60 each? You want the full version of RCE? OK, now they are 66 points each. Having the full thing is necessarily better.

The RA position is not a job and the RA is not paid.


... so I am not really sure where you are going with this other than to be argumentative.

As pointed out by Milo, the costumes are not a mistake by WK:
VGA, as I pointed out in a previous post, this is flat out untrue.

Very good counter-point. For some reason, that didn't cross my mind. Thanks for pointing that out.

Who am I arguing with? I think you took me out of context.
I didn't mean it in the sense that you got paid for it.... I meant, what would you guys do without all of the questions that get asked? (Some dumb questions, some really good questions.) But without horribly written rules, powers, and traits, you guys would get awfully bored. It is in that context that I made my comment.

For example, look at Sauron's Epic Action and the Horde Tokens questions as an example. Even the rules arbitrators/deputies are so confused on these powers and tokens that they haven't been able answer the players' questions with a definitive ruling. That's not being "argumentative" as you put, but just stating a simple fact.

Now, myself, I think the LotR Sauron and the Horde Tokens are written extremely well, and that WizKids did a superb job in writing those rules, so I really don't understand all of the confusion. But in general, there is A LOT of typos which end up needing errata and clarifications. Way more than any other table top game in existence.

Or the Infinity Gauntlet... even Wizkids themselves haven't been able to tell us what it is...object? Feat? Event Dial? Character? And they made the thing. There goes another section for the next Player's Guide.

Even for a game like Warhammer / 40K, which puts HeroClix to shame in complexity.. it's written extremely well.

This is a typical errata booklet for Warhammer.. pretty simple, and extremely short for such an advanced game, a whopping 3 pages.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...March_2009.pdf

I think if WizKids would slow down, have multiple people proof-read, then proof-read again, alpha-test, beta-test, then proof-read again, then when the final version is done, before it goes to print, proof-read again, the Player's Guide would only have to be three pages long.

Gramps had an old saying, "Son, measure twice, cut once." Because once you cut that 2x4, there is no going back.

From the REV sets, I can't think of any generics that were re-used for another type of generic. In Supernova, the REVs for the Generics had different names, like Skrull Infiltrator, Skrull Warrior, and Skrull General... but those were still the REV for the set. They didn't recycle that sculpt with a different head and gun for the S.H.I.E.L.D. figures. They DID do that for the Incredible Hulk set.

If you would like to point some out from the REV sets, besides the LEs, I'd be curious to know which ones.

this looks like lots of fun. i cant wait

Hell yeah... I agree. Firelord was in the Nova Corps in his younger days.

I'm going to have to make a team to play when the Galactic Guardians set comes out...

It will consist of:

Nova II (Richard Rider)
Firelord (either the Rookie from IC, or the Pyreus Kril LE from Avengers)
And a handful of these generics.

I've ran a Nova Corps team in the past, but now with these generics, I can run a much fuller team.

ic136 R Firelord
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6
Points: 66
Keywords: Cosmic, Herald, Nova Corps

10 11 17 3

10 11 16 2

8 10 13 1

8 10 12 1

7 9 11 1

7 9 10 1

6 8 9 1

6 8 8 1

5 7 7 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

gg001 V Nova Prime
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 7
Points: 150
Keywords: Avengers, New Warriors, Nova Corps, Police, Soldier

12 11 17 4

11 11 17 3

10 10 17 3

10 10 17 3

9 10 16 3

8 9 16 3

8 9 16 2

8 9 16 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Special) Share Through the Worldmind: Friendly characters with the Nova Corps keyword can use Leadership, but only succeed on a roll of 6. Give an adjacent friendly character of 50 points or more with the Nova Corps keyword a power action and remove an action token from Nova Prime.

Move over GLC! The Nova Corps has arrived!



And that's a horrible sculpt. It reminds me of the recent Superman common too much. I'm glad Nova Prime's is different.

I think you may be the only person in the world that thinks that Warhammer 40k is "written extremely well". Because if you go to any 40k message board, you will see hundreds if not thousands of rules questions. Games Workshop is constantly criticized for taking forever to address questions in their FAQs, and some go years before being answered. If they ever get answered. And the PDF you linked is a misrepresentation of the size of the FAQ documents out there. In reality, the FAQ size for 40k is more like this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/up/INATFAQv5.0.1.pdf

INAT is a document maintained by unpaid people (similar to the Player's Guide) and is used by tournament organizers all over the world. It's over 100 pages .

Are you saying that you distinguish a difference between what they did with generic REV sets and what they did with characters like A.I.M. Agent and A.I.M. Renegade?

That is still shorter than the entire Golden Age Players Guide, plus it is in color, very professional looking, and laid out superbly.

Yes, that is what I am saying. The REV system, we always got 3 copies of a figure, whether it was a Generic or a Named figure. That is why it was called the REV system. And as I stated, those older sets were, with LEs, 150-160 figure sets. They were freakin' HUGE! A very few of the Uniques re-used sculpts, but with a slight change in sculpt. Captain America with is original shield, Cyclops with his helmet on... but these were awesome, and were very few and far between. More dials, less chances of pulling duplicates.

But under HeroClix 2.0 sets drastically dropped in size, with LEs included, to about 70 figures. And that number is slowly dropping with each NECA release. Sets are getting smaller and smaller. No reason any longer to give us sculpt re-use.

If you look at the HeroClix 2.0 sets under Topps, Avengers to Hammer of Thor, sculpt re-use was unheard of (with these exceptions: Secret Invasion - which made total sense for that set since you were doing Skrull impostors, and the Limited Editions and Free Comic Book Day Figures.)

Since NECA has taken over, starting with Brave and Bold, sculpt re-use was started. Either bring back the REV system, or don't give us sculpt re-use.

The sets now, not counting LEs, are only 50-60 figures now. And instead of getting 20 LEs, we get 4-5 LEs, which is fine, because the sets are smaller. There really is no legitimate reason to give us sculpt re-use, with the exception of LEs.

A Hulkbuster Wrangler should not look like a Hulkbuster Soldier, who should not look like General Ross, who looks like Glenn Talbot. There really is no reason for that.

Even under the REV system under Topps, A S.H.I.E.L.D. Sniper was a different sculpt than the Medic and Agent. This applied to the Skrulls, HYDRA, A.I.M., etc. It even was applied to the Hand Ninjas. We had two different types with completely different sculpts.

The FAQ/errata portion of the Players Guide is only 32 pages, the rest is just reference text (copying character cards, etc). If the same info was included in the 40k FAQ, that FAQ would be another 300 pages.