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You'll get no argument from me DAMN RIGHT he should go 20-0 but it's not about lying down maybe Taker is tired of having to defend it. It must be such an emotional drain on The Undertaker that loosing almost seems like freedom. It's a HUGE burden to be the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be. Taker is the only active wrestler left in the WWE to be on THE FIRST EPISODE OF RAW, he's got nothing else to prove, and I think part of him WANTS to know what it's like to loose simply because IT'S NEVER HAPPENED.
What burden could he have? 20 is a nice round number to retire on and I'd say once it hit between 15-17 the idea was probably started for him to retire at 20-0 (once they started doing the math). If he didn't want to do it, he could easily turn them (and the 'Mania financial payoff) down. Again, he's more than earned the right.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dragon
Oh thank god. If it is you, then I'll go for it. It must be someone who is trust worthy. Thankfully you fit that bill perfectly!
Quote : Originally Posted by th3foot
There's competent, and incompetent, and then there's WizKompetent.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the man. It is the character that, for me, has ran it's course. Asking me to drop large amounts of coin on Mania is not a problem. But asking me to pay that money for a match that everyone knows what the outcome will be doesn't make alot of sense. And if the match is the same quality as the last year's snoozefest, Lord only knows how screwed I will feel. Those guys were sucking so much wind that I had oxygen deprivation sitting in my living room.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the man. It is the character that, for me, has ran it's course. Asking me to drop large amounts of coin on Mania is not a problem. But asking me to pay that money for a match that everyone knows what the outcome will be doesn't make alot of sense. And if the match is the same quality as the last year's snoozefest, Lord only knows how screwed I will feel. Those guys were sucking so much wind that I had oxygen deprivation sitting in my living room.
I'm one of the others (apparently in the large minority) that hated that match.
That being said, wrestling is supposed to be left on your back. So either Undertaker loses at Wrestlemania to try and elevate a guy (Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes, Sheamus?) or has a feud after Mania putting him out.
That being said, wrestling is supposed to be left on your back. So either Undertaker loses at Wrestlemania to try and elevate a guy (Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes, Sheamus?) or has a feud after Mania putting him out.
Anything else just feels like a waste.
But is he really leaving? I imagine even if he goes 20-0 and retires from active competition he's probably lined up for some gig backstage. He wouldn't be leaving wrestling, just the in-ring stuff.
But is he really leaving? I imagine even if he goes 20-0 and retires from active competition he's probably lined up for some gig backstage. He wouldn't be leaving wrestling, just the in-ring stuff.
It still counts as going out. I understand the reticence to have him lose at WM, but a loss to end his career at any other event doesn't mean much . I mean sure whomever ends his career will get that rub. I don't find him anymore legendary than Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock (the last time and more than likely this time), and Austin who all jobbed to end their career, at some point he'll have to put someone over abd hopefully its a younger guy. At the same time, where this is all coming from, nothing would put as much heat on a young heel as beating the streak and ending his career.
Does he deserve it? Eh not sure, I mean its not like he's had anything to do with the streak, he just got lucky early on with booking, and in a rigged game going undefeated isn't that impressive of an accomplishment, but with as much as they build it up it would be a special moment if it were to end and much more memorable then any random win they could throw at us. To me if he wins 20 and retires, the high point of the whole thing would have been 4 years ago, and having him go out on a down note is more of a disservice than some fake number they shove down our throats.
Quote : Originally Posted by zxbya
I'm one of the others (apparently in the large minority) that hated that match.
That being said, wrestling is supposed to be left on your back. So either Undertaker loses at Wrestlemania to try and elevate a guy (Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes, Sheamus?) or has a feud after Mania putting him out.
Anything else just feels like a waste
I didn't hate the match but wasn't in love with it either, they took every shortcut in the book except color. However there were some decent moments in the match, but it went on entirely too long and they were hamming it up more than they should of, trying to make a moment out of it.
I don't find him anymore legendary than Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock (the last time and more than likely this time), and Austin
.
The Undertaker has beaten ALL OF THEM that is what makes him the unofficial GOD OF WRESTLING and he's brought more innovation to Wrestling then anyone else in the industry
DRAGON SLEEPER
TRIANGLE CHOKE
TOMBSTONE PILE DRIVER
CHOKE SLAM
THE ROPE WALK ARM LOCK (Old School)
THE DECAPITATION LEG DROP (When Taker JUMPS from the ring and leg drops to the arena floor)
His whole charactor is responsible for bring MicK Folly to the WWE as MANKIND
If it wasn't for The Undertaker KANE would still be ISSAC YANK'EM (a name I'm sure he'd wish we'd all forget)
The Undertaker has fought in
THE FIRST HELL IN A CELL
The Casket Match
The Punjabi Prison Match against THE BIG SHOW
The Buried Alive Match (only reason Taker lost is because Kane ambushed him)
The Fire Matches Against Kane
The Undertaker is a winner of BOTH The Royal Rumble & THE ELIMINATION CHAMBER
Beat Edge in a TLC match
The entire carrier of The Undertaker is like watching the best moments of Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock, Austin, and HHH, only BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
The entire carrier of The Undertaker is like watching the best moments of Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock, Austin, and HHH, only BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
The wrestlers mentioned above could make a barstool look good in a wrestling match. Even a seven foot tall barstool.
The Undertaker has beaten ALL OF THEM that is what makes him the unofficial GOD OF WRESTLING and he's brought more innovation to Wrestling then anyone else in the industry
DRAGON SLEEPER
TRIANGLE CHOKE
TOMBSTONE PILE DRIVER
CHOKE SLAM
THE ROPE WALK ARM LOCK (Old School)
THE DECAPITATION LEG DROP (When Taker JUMPS from the ring and leg drops to the arena floor)
His whole charactor is responsible for bring MicK Folly to the WWE as MANKIND
If it wasn't for The Undertaker KANE would still be ISSAC YANK'EM (a name I'm sure he'd wish we'd all forget)
The Undertaker has fought in
THE FIRST HELL IN A CELL
The Casket Match
The Punjabi Prison Match against THE BIG SHOW
The Buried Alive Match (only reason Taker lost is because Kane ambushed him)
The Fire Matches Against Kane
The Undertaker is a winner of BOTH The Royal Rumble & THE ELIMINATION CHAMBER
Beat Edge in a TLC match
The entire carrier of The Undertaker is like watching the best moments of Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock, Austin, and HHH, only BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
I'm starting to think I'm getting trolled here.
Quote : Originally Posted by Fredwood
I don't find him anymore legendary than Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock (the last time and more than likely this time), and Austin who all jobbed to end their career,
Hart didn't job out to anyone. He got concussed infamously by Goldberg. Austin...who did he job to before his neck? The only name that comes to mind is The Rock and that was at Wrestlemania XIX. Who did Flair job to? Shawn Michaels, the guy he asked to have "end it" (at least in WWE. Meanwhile, Michaels laid down in his final match against Taker. That leaves Foley and Rock. Yes, both are at the point of elevating talent, so I'll give you that. But the rest? Not quite as clear cut as it comes across.
Taker and Michaels were the two most loyal company guys through the thick and thin, though Michaels' situation is well documented. So, essentially Taker was like Michaels without all the nonsense. He became a leader of the locker room and spent PLENTY of time trying to put over guys like Jeff Hardy, Brock Lesnar, Nathan Jones, Heidenreich, Edge, and more. Hell, having to face Giant Gonzalez is credential enough, lol. The bottom line is that people overlook how much of a company guy he's actually been just because of the streak.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dragon
Oh thank god. If it is you, then I'll go for it. It must be someone who is trust worthy. Thankfully you fit that bill perfectly!
Quote : Originally Posted by th3foot
There's competent, and incompetent, and then there's WizKompetent.
As long as Undertaker can wrestle one match a year, he will compete at Wrestlemania. As long as he can build up one match a year that makes the people believe that his opponent is the guy to end the streak, he will keep coming out at Wrestlemania and beat said opponent. I don't care if Taker has a heart attack and dies in the middle of the ring, his opponent will lay down and roll Taker on top of him for a three count!
If i had to guess i would say that Taker still has 2-3 good Wrestlemania matches left in him. Let's face it, as long as Taker is getting paid seven figures for one match a year, he will do that as long as he can.
Hart didn't job out to anyone. He got concussed infamously by Goldberg. Austin...who did he job to before his neck? The only name that comes to mind is The Rock and that was at Wrestlemania XIX. Who did Flair job to? Shawn Michaels, the guy he asked to have "end it" (at least in WWE. Meanwhile, Michaels laid down in his final match against Taker. That leaves Foley and Rock. Yes, both are at the point of elevating talent, so I'll give you that. But the rest? Not quite as clear cut as it comes across.
Taker and Michaels were the two most loyal company guys through the thick and thin, though Michaels' situation is well documented. So, essentially Taker was like Michaels without all the nonsense. He became a leader of the locker room and spent PLENTY of time trying to put over guys like Jeff Hardy, Brock Lesnar, Nathan Jones, Heidenreich, Edge, and more. Hell, having to face Giant Gonzalez is credential enough, lol. The bottom line is that people overlook how much of a company guy he's actually been just because of the streak.
I think he's the guy who still believes its real so.
Hart may be a bit of a stretch, although he did a lot to elevate talent while an active member of the roster. However every other person on the list did go out on their back, whether they elevated talent or not thats another thing, egos got in the way and they'd only lose to X wrestler. The point is that everyone went out to active members of the roster, maybe it wasn't to anyone who needed it but thats what happened.
I'm not saying Taker isn't a company man, the fact that he is such a company man is the reason I think the streak will end with a loss, my hope is that its to elevate someone and not go the Flair route.
As long as Undertaker can wrestle one match a year, he will compete at Wrestlemania. As long as he can build up one match a year that makes the people believe that his opponent is the guy to end the streak, he will keep coming out at Wrestlemania and beat said opponent. I don't care if Taker has a heart attack and dies in the middle of the ring, his opponent will lay down and roll Taker on top of him for a three count!
If i had to guess i would say that Taker still has 2-3 good Wrestlemania matches left in him. Let's face it, as long as Taker is getting paid seven figures for one match a year, he will do that as long as he can.
I disagree, above all else he's concerned with legacy, I doubt he's going to go on forever once a year just for a paycheck. His shoulder might as well be made of split pea soup at this point, and frankly I was surprised he was even able to wrestle last year, I expect this year to be very similar in that they'll take a crap ton of shortcuts again with whomever he faces.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the man. It is the character that, for me, has ran it's course. Asking me to drop large amounts of coin on Mania is not a problem. But asking me to pay that money for a match that everyone knows what the outcome will be doesn't make alot of sense. And if the match is the same quality as the last year's snoozefest, Lord only knows how screwed I will feel. Those guys were sucking so much wind that I had oxygen deprivation sitting in my living room.
How many times in pro wrestling do we know whats going to happen but still want to see it anyways? "Oh here comes the ref bump now X is going to interfere in the match!" And everyone marks out like a 10 year old when it happens. That's just professional wrestling. And you said it yourself it wasn't that great of a match last year. I don't care if I know who is going to win (this isn't the NFL where if you know the outcome of the game it takes all the excitement out of it) it's all about the actual match or the performance. If it was a great match and you knew before hand who was going to win it's still a good match, a crap match is a crap match. Nice Cornette reference BTW.
Quote : Originally Posted by Fredwood
It still counts as going out. I understand the reticence to have him lose at WM, but a loss to end his career at any other event doesn't mean much . I mean sure whomever ends his career will get that rub. I don't find him anymore legendary than Flair, HBK, Hart, Foley, Rock (the last time and more than likely this time), and Austin who all jobbed to end their career, at some point he'll have to put someone over abd hopefully its a younger guy. At the same time, where this is all coming from, nothing would put as much heat on a young heel as beating the streak and ending his career.
Jobbing out when leaving is one thing, but doing it and ending your WM winning streak is another. Why end it now? What good comes out of it at this point? To put over some young guy who would have probably ended up wrestling for the indy feds in a few years? Mr Kennedy was a big one people were wanting to end his streak a few years ago, I bet WWE is kicking themselves for not letting him take Taker out at WM. So you want the guy who has worked his ### off for the company for so many years to tarnish his career with the ONE loss at WM just so some guy who will leave when the first movie gig or UFC contract comes up can get some cheap heat for a few months before everyone forgets? As much as I'm tired of the whole undefeated crap we have to put up with every year I'd rather him just win once and be done with it, instead of having the WWE push whatever loser they chose to end the streak, who's career highlight will be "ending the Undertakers WM streak... 8 years ago!!!!" *yawn*, down our throats for the next 10 years because they have to.
I think he's the guy who still believes its real so.
Hart may be a bit of a stretch, although he did a lot to elevate talent while an active member of the roster. However every other person on the list did go out on their back, whether they elevated talent or not thats another thing, egos got in the way and they'd only lose to X wrestler. The point is that everyone went out to active members of the roster, maybe it wasn't to anyone who needed it but thats what happened.
I'm not saying Taker isn't a company man, the fact that he is such a company man is the reason I think the streak will end with a loss, my hope is that its to elevate someone and not go the Flair route.
I agree that most of the stars you mentioned did their part to elevate talent (or in some cases TRIED to elevate talent) and I think Taker's done that as well. But as someone else pointed out, this is the biggest event in the industry and it's a standing legacy. Ending it at this point doesn't do anyone justice. You want to elevate someone or give them a rub, odds are they'll never live up to that kind of a roll. Nor would it be fair for them to have to.
The more I think about it, ending the streak would actually be the easy way out. I think it's much harder to make the fans believe Taker could actually lose. The first encounter with Michaels did that better than any of the other 18 matches.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dragon
Oh thank god. If it is you, then I'll go for it. It must be someone who is trust worthy. Thankfully you fit that bill perfectly!
Quote : Originally Posted by th3foot
There's competent, and incompetent, and then there's WizKompetent.