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This is exactly what I'm saying. There is a bug in the rules here. I'm ok with the rulings and all. I'm just saying that for the 2012 rulebook this could be wordes slightly better. And no, I don't have a better wording in mind at the moment.
It's really the word "allows" after the "game effects" that really bugs me. There are quite alot of game effects that actions allow to happen and with a straight reading of the rules we can't resolve an action before all game effect is allows are resolved.
Maybe change "game effects that action allows" into "game effects that are part of the action" or something like that.
It's actually kind of unfortunate that a lot of rules work on a "just because" basis. The wordings don't always directly line up with exactly how they would read. But at the same time, you can never truly have perfect wording.
With different cultures, age differences, experience levels, levels of reading comprehension and understandings of the intricacies of both standard language and language as it applies to the game of heroclix.... something is always going to confuse someone, no matter how you word it. Heroclix, in my opinion, is a simple game with A LOT of intricacies.... the people that are the best at the rules can do two things, they can understand these intricacies and can remember them, since there are so many.
Right now, there are a lot of "broken" things in the rulebook that don't neccessarily line up to work in the game exactly how they might read... but we have a lot of people that understand how they work, without having to consult the rulebook everytime they explain it to someone... so with limited staff, it's not really a top priority to re-write things that though they may not work exactly as described, are understood.
Forum Team Building Contest #2 and #3 Winner, & runner up for #1 and #4.
The most annoying thing to me is of course (once again) the fact that I was a part of the 2011 rulebook team and didn't notice this bug back then. Every time some bug in the 2011 rules comes up I feel slightly responsible for not noticing it during the proof-reading process.
The most annoying thing to me is of course (once again) the fact that I was a part of the 2011 rulebook team and didn't notice this bug back then. Every time some bug in the 2011 rules comes up I feel slightly responsible for not noticing it during the proof-reading process.
No. NO . NOOOOOO. We must all kill VanisherPunisher. Every rules problem and inconsistency from now, unto the end of time, will be blamed on him and his poor proof reading skills
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
The key wording is "Give this character a power action". As soon as you see that, everything that follows is a part of that single action. Running shot is a power action. It grants you the ability to move and shoot, two separate actions, but they are encompassed by the original power action. That power action must conclude before another action can be taken.
Boom Tube Invasion does not say anything about a power action. Darkseid moving with Phasing/Teleport is its own action. He moves, he carries people, he ends his movement. That is the end of that action. The next part of the power is its own separate action. As such, it does not have to be given immediately, it can be taken at any time during your turn as long as you have the remaining allowed actions to do so.
No. NO . NOOOOOO. We must all kill VanisherPunisher. Every rules problem and inconsistency from now, unto the end of time, will be blamed on him and his poor proof reading skills
I'm ok with that. Like I always tell my friends, if they need someone to blame, or a scapegoat, they can always point at me.
This refers to free actions/game effects that are PART of the action.
For example, when you use flurry, the second attack is part of the close combat action, so you would make the second attack before the close combat action resolves.
By the way you're reading it, though, any power with an "after actions resolve" effect would never be able to resolve.
If it says "after actions resolve" then it already says that it breaks the normal rulebook and the power trumps the rules. Darkseid's power does not say that it overrides the rulebook in any way.
The most annoying thing to me is of course (once again) the fact that I was a part of the 2011 rulebook team and didn't notice this bug back then. Every time some bug in the 2011 rules comes up I feel slightly responsible for not noticing it during the proof-reading process.
You're human. No worries. At least, I am guessing you are human.....
The key wording is "Give this character a power action". As soon as you see that, everything that follows is a part of that single action. Running shot is a power action. It grants you the ability to move and shoot, two separate actions, but they are encompassed by the original power action. That power action must conclude before another action can be taken.
Boom Tube Invasion does not say anything about a power action. Darkseid moving with Phasing/Teleport is its own action. He moves, he carries people, he ends his movement. That is the end of that action. The next part of the power is its own separate action. As such, it does not have to be given immediately, it can be taken at any time during your turn as long as you have the remaining allowed actions to do so.
Power Action. Learn it and love it.
Cool. That explanation works for me. I knew that if enough people chimed in, someone could explain what makes it different from running shot.
In other words, his power is a lot like Super Strength. It provides access to a way to break the rules, but does not require a power action to break the rules (which would only be in affect while that action resolves). It allows you do each of the things listed but each are their own separate ability.
Thanks WhiteLanternCap for getting to the bottom of this!
In other words, his power is a lot like Super Strength. It provides access to a way to break the rules, but does not require a power action to break the rules (which would only be in affect while that action resolves). It allows you do each of the things listed but each are their own separate ability.
Thanks WhiteLanternCap for getting to the bottom of this!
I'm curious to hear how you think Super Strength 'breaks the rules' ?
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
When I use the term "break the rules" I am not referring to it being against the rules as games like this are all about abilities that "break the rules" legally. I am referring to things that change what is, without that power or ability, legal for that figure to do, wether it is flight allowing you to ignore elevated terrain for movement or the Avengers ability allowing you to move more than 3 figures during your turn of a 300 pt games. The rule for a 300 point game is that you can move up to 3 figures. Avengers allows you to break that rule and move a figure without counting as those 3 activations.
Normally you can not pick up objects. Super Strength allows you to do so. It gives you an ability that is not the standard rule. The standard rule for an object without a power is that it sits there. It does not move. It acts as hindering terrain. Telekinesis and Super Strength allow you to break that basic rule of the game.
When I use the term "break the rules" I am not referring to it being against the rules as games like this are all about abilities that "break the rules" legally. I am referring to things that change what is, without that power or ability, legal for that figure to do, wether it is flight allowing you to ignore elevated terrain for movement or the Avengers ability allowing you to move more than 3 figures during your turn of a 300 pt games. The rule for a 300 point game is that you can move up to 3 figures. Avengers allows you to break that rule and move a figure without counting as those 3 activations.
Normally you can not pick up objects. Super Strength allows you to do so. It gives you an ability that is not the standard rule. The standard rule for an object without a power is that it sits there. It does not move. It acts as hindering terrain. Telekinesis and Super Strength allow you to break that basic rule of the game.
I don't even really know what to say to that. It's not 'breaking' anything, those are the rules of the game. Without those types of powers, you might as well just play chess.
That's a very strange way to look at things.............
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
I don't even really know what to say to that. It's not 'breaking' anything, those are the rules of the game. Without those types of powers, you might as well just play chess.
That's a very strange way to look at things.............
It isn't that strange. The term is used a lot in game design.
Perhaps you are, incorrectly, looking at the term "breaking the rules" as being a negative thing since the term is often used in reference to cheating. In this case I do not mean in any way for it to be cheating, nor do I want a game where you can't legally "break the rules." I like these games because they allow things like this. If every fig played with the same rules it wouldn't be as interesting.