Why do I even bother?

Squid, I need you man, I'm about to give up on this Thread, since apparently nobody appreciates it...

Listen up both of you and listen good: Your deck ideas posted here so far have been typical newbie suggestions. Suggestions of those who haven't worked closely with Dragons, suggestions of people who see Kaiser Seahorse and say 'Oh, that's a BEWD support card, I'll put it in my BEWD deck'

What I'm trying to accomplish here is to get people to forget the 'Lord Of D. + 2 Flutes + Bad-Assed Dragons: haha you're dead if you don't have a Mirror Force' way of thinking.
People are building Dragon decks the same way they would have built a Chaos deck in Traditional Format: they just use exactly the same cards, the only difference being whether they use Tyrant or BEWD as their main Dragon.
Sure, Dragons specialize in stomping through the opposition and gobbling them up, but that is NOT the be-all and end-all of Dragon Tactics. Actually, these are the kind of Tactics a beginner should start with, and then work up to some more Advanced plays, like Armedmorphosis and Dragon Hybrids (Dragon/Warrior, Dragon/Fiend etc.)
Sure, I could completly scrap my beautiful BEWD deck, and use only Dragons, but I've ran decks like that before and the one I'm currently using is faster and more efficient (and has a cool Special Summoning ability)
I'm proud of the fact that people like Shooky are trying out new things, but it sickens me that people like you see a BEWD deck with XYZ in it and cry out for blood. It's pathetic. You don't even TRY to see the reasoning behind it.
Now then, I'm going to go on with my Dragon Tactics, because I feel people need a good referance to such things, and nothing either of you say to criticise or undermine me is going to change that. Now, if somebody like Waldo or Pyrofire were to show up here and tell me I was wrong, I'd apoligize and have the Thread removed. But until that happens, I'm going to keep going on. And my BEWD tactics WILL contain my deck simply because it's the best BEWD deck I've built so far.

I ran a dragon deck a little after I started playing. That deck was all about the old Lord of D, Flute combo. Hey I was starting out, and getting out a lot of big hitters fast seemed like a really good idea.

Recently I've been on a string of making a lot of decks. I just get bored and like to change things up and play with different decks. I decided that it was high time I gave Dragons another go around, however I didn't want to go back to the old Lord of D type deck. Sure it's powerful, but there are so many things that can go wrong, in both formats. I bring out two Dragons and then bam my opponents activates, Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute, Waboku, Negate Attack, or after activating one of these, uses Dark Hole or Raigeki the next turn. I hate the over extension that this deck relies on.

So I went in a different path, or am going in a different path, with the deck I've been building.

Monsters (18):
Horus the Black Flame Dragon Lv8
2 Horus the Black Flame Dragon Lv6
3 Horus the Black Flame Dragon Lv4
2 Element Dragon
2 Spirit Ryu
2 Masked Dragon
2 Spear Dragon
2 Luster Dragon #1
Twin-Headed Behemoth
Tribe Infecting Virus

Spells (17):
2 Level Up!
2 The Graveyard in the Fourth Dimension
2 Super Rejuvenation
2 Stamping Destruction
2 Smashing Ground
Painful Choice
Change of Heart
Pot of Greed
Mystical Space Typhoon
Heavy Storm
Premature Burial
Book of Moon

Traps (5):
Call of the Haunted
2 Burst Breath
2 Raigeki Break

The only thing I'm not sure of, is if I want to use the Horus line, or the Armed Dragon line. Obviously there are advantages to both. I tend to think the Armed Dragons might flow better in this deck and make good use out of the Masked Dragons. I'm going to play test both and see which I end up liking better. Super Rejuvenation makes great use of a lot of cards in this deck, Spirit Ryu, Tribe Infecting Virus, Burst Breath, and Raigeki Break. Stamping Destruction is pretty self explanitory. The only things I'm not sure if I'm going to like are the Burst Breath, I may sub one out for a Hallowed Life Barrier.

well after all these tacits ive been hearing i proxied me up a dragon deck to verse my new beatdown deck. it never stood a chance. Im not sure what i was doing wrong, but except for a few lucky draws my beatdown nailed it consistently. i mixed it up too and didnt help. i tried with lord of d and without, with masked and element dragon and without, with tyrants and bewd and without, and with easy one tributes like kaiser glider and armed level 5. i tried with, with multiple, and without burst breath and dragons rage, but the end results came out the same. beatdown still had more consistent power and flowed better. maybe someone could throw me up an advanced deck without lord of d or dimension fusion to go off, i cant seem to see what works.

hmmm, believe it or not, this is actually a problem I've encountered many times from people when they first start out with Dragons. First, I'll post some common reasons for this, then move on to some (slightly) more advanced tactics.

- Does your deck have enough Drawing/Searchability? Forget about Masked Dragon for a moment, it's slightly overrated and best suited to Horus/Armed/Element Dragon themes. For searchability, Paladin and Manju work best with BEWD. For drawing power, Spirit Ryu + Super Rejuvenation is ok, but if you need serious drawing power in a post-ban environment, Convulsion Of Nature + Archfiend's Oath is one of the more useful combos.

- If you're using Element Dragon, do you have enough Fire types in the deck? Without them, Element dies quickly, and that double attack ain't gonna do any good if your opponent has two Gorillas staring you down.

- With Lord Of D.: Is he searchable? If not, add a couple of Tomatos, and if you can't keep him on the field long enough, add a Heart Of Clear Water like Shooky used, works wonders for Lord Of D.

- Are you playing aggressively enough? Dragons are very aggressive cards. They should hit the field running and not stop until your opponent squeals for mercy. Never hesitate to attack, because hanging around and giving your opponent time is what kills Dragons, which is why Trap removal is a must in Dragon decks.

- On the note above, does your deck include enough aggressive Spells/Traps? Rarely do dragons need Equips of any kind. Better to stock up on the likes of Offerings To The Doomed, Torrential Tribute, Ring Of Destruction, Stamping Destruction, Wingbeat etc.
These cards will wipe the Field clean and allow the Dragons to march in for victory.

- Finally, check your card balance. Ideally, it should be something like 18-14-8
Make sure your not trying to include too many Tributes, which should be preferably 3 but possibly 4.

Now if you've done all of the above (and from your post it sounds like you have), you could try a more advanced theme instead. To do this, look at your cards and consider their biggest weakness. With Dragons this is usually speed. Once you find their weakness, consider the best Monster Type to erase that weakness, Warriors for example.
Dragons can be mixed with nearly any other Type of Monster. Jinzo, for example, can help deal with pesky traps to keep the offensive theme going, which opens up the possibility for a Dragon/Machine theme (also possible for Red-Eyes enthusiasts)
Warriors can help counterbalance the Speed/Drawing issue.
Fiends can add some much needed Field Control.
Wind decks also become a real possibility with Armed Dragon. Lady Ninja Yae gives a nice Giant Trunade effect.
To give an example of such a Hybrid deck, this is the Deck List for a Dragon/Warrior deck I made a while back. Keep in mind that this was made sometime around the announcement of the Ban list, so it's a little bit outdated:

Legend Of The Dragon Warriors: 42 Cards

Tribute Monsters: 3

2x Tyrant Dragon
1x Freed The Matchless General / Jinzo

Monsters: 14

2x Goblin Attack Force
2x Marauding Captain
1x Exiled Force
2x Amazoness Swords Woman
1x D.D. Warrior Lady
2x Luster Dragon
2x Spear Dragon
1x Cyber Jar
1x Twin-Headed Behemoth

Spells: 17

2x Cost Down
2x Reinforcement Of The Army
3x Stamping Destruction
1x Heavy Storm
3x The Warrior Returning Alive
2x Dragonic Attack
1x Pot Of Greed
1x The A. Forces
1x Fusion Sword Murasame Blade

Traps: 8

1x Call Of The Haunted
1x Final Attack Orders
2x DNA Surgery
2x Dragon's Rage
2x Burst Breath


DNA Surgery becomes your best friend in these decks. As you probably noticed, I can either use it and call Dragon to use Dragon's Rage/Stamping Destruction etc. with my Warriors, or call Warrior to use A. Forces/Fusion Sword/Dragonic Attack with the Dragons.

@DenFrenzy:
Looks good so far. Unfortunatly, I don't have much experiance with Horus yet, but I can vouch for the speed and flexability of Armed Dragon. If you do go Horus though, consider Horus' Servant + Heart Of Clear Water. It makes for a very deadly combination in a post-ban environment.. Good to hear more people are breaking free from the Lord Of D. way of thinking ;)

Allright, you want my help, cool. But let me see if first I can lay a fact or two down

Debates are good, as are differences in how you approach a subject. the difference of opinions can allow you all to gain new ideas and provide your own spin on things. For example, I personally would not have run XYZ with BEWD. it seems cluttered to me. But after listening to Dragon-Reborn explain reasons behind it, it sounds like an approach that deserves another look.


No offense, BurnPSV, but its not debating you seem to enjoy, but antagonizing. there is a difference. Its slightly aggressive and deismissive of the other party. You are not interested in learning, just in posting the amount of Dragon decks you have.

On the other hand, D-R, losing your temper or calling anyone a Newbie wont make them likely to listen to you. They tune you out once you start to insult them.

So far, this thread, which started off highly informative, has digressed into a bickering session. Frenzy has stayed on target, for which I thank him. I have to run for a second, but when i come back i will contribute my ideas on the subject, plus my dragon deck idea.

~squid~

Actually, I didn't mean to be offensive with the newbie thing (although I will admit I lost my temper), also, I didn't say 'newbie', I said 'beginner Dragon duelist', there is a difference, since I'm assuming this is a good duelist with deck building experiance who's turning his attention to Dragon Decks. My phrasing was just a bit off 'cause I was angry, for which I now apologize.
Squid, I'm glad you're going to post here, and with a bit of luck I'll soon have my BEWD tactics finished, then I can move on to Hybrid decks (my second favorite form of Dragon deck hehe)

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to help those who are turning to dragon decks. Some people are close-minded to suggestions they feel are not right. Some people are open to them and will use what they feel will work in a given situation. Dragon-reborn, please don't give up yet. Some good deck builders often need a gentle push in the right direction. I am one of those duelists. Not quite finished with my new dragon deck yet. I will post it when it is finished.

Lindsay

you know, I went back looking at some of the deck ideas, and I was wondering what everone's opinion of Super Rejuvenation was?


Super Rejuvenation
LOD-047
quickplay magic (this was before the Wizards of the Coast lawsuit)

During the end Phase of the turn this card is activated, draw 1 card for each Dragon type monster discarded from your hand and or offered as a Tribute during this turn.


i dont see a lot of attention being paid to this card, when in fact there are so many reasons to run this, IMO. Some of the cards that have discard or Tribute attached to them include Burst Breath and Armed Dragon Lvls 5 and 7. then you have other general cards like Raigeki Break and Tribute to the Doomed which can themselves create a lot of damage

I am still playing around with Dragons, but in the variations and adjusting of the deck one thing has remained the same, I pack 3 Super Rejuv-. to me it acts as a type of Last Will for Dragons. So long as I have plenty of dragons, that is. But you wouldnt play SR if you didnt have Dragons. Plus, Dragon-Reborn mentioned that searching/drawing in D-Decks was a little slow, so this helps a lot.

whats the general opinion on Super Rejuvenation? Like it? Dont? Anyone use it with any cool combos?




**PS: Im going to hold off for the next post before I post my current decklist. this post is long enough right now. Plus, Im a little shy around all these other D-Duelists. :cheeky:

hmm i might have to try super rejuvination. the only reason i didnt wanna use tomatos for lord of d is that would be the only real option to bring out with it, and its really not worth it at all than for the space it takes, so ive decided to forget lord of d all together. i think what i actually needed was more protection traps instead of like dragons rage, which versus beatdown is almost trash. i love tyant and bewd, but they are to hard to get out sometimes. i like powd, but ritual summons are costly and eat away at ur hand, hafl the time he only lasts a turn, and i dont wanna use bewd just because i have powd in the deck. Dragon decks are agressive, but so is beatdown, and they can generall out power all non tribute dragons, or at least the deck i made does. burst breath came threw for me sometimes, but other times it was dead weight. i had torrential ring, cylinder, stamping and all the other s/t killers, nobleman of crossout, etc. im just not sure how to make it fast and strong at the same time. im not much into type mixing either, im trying to go mainly dragons. while i like dragons, im just wondering if they are really up to par with some other decks, but i will keep playtesting and see.

hmmm. Tournament worthiness of Dragons, without mixing into other types, always has been an issue. Really, I'd say Horus and Armed Dragon are the best bet if you want something that can match up to other Deck Types while remaining 'pure' Dragon. Notice that I noted away back at the beginning of this Thread that even 'pure' decks should include some non-dragon support, such as Familiar Knight or Horus' Servant.

@Squid: Personally, I prefer my good old Convulsion + Archfiend's Oath combo for reliable drawing power, but Super Rejuv is a very, very useful card, especially since D. Decks tend to be rather Tribute Heavy, and like you said cards like Burst Breath involve tributing, too.
Really, though, Spirit Ryu is the best way to abuse this card. This is a situation that actually happened to me once:
Tyrant Dragon on the Field, Burst Breath and Super Rejuv set. I have Swords Of Revealing Light, another Tyrant and Rare Metal Dragon in my Hand. Draw Spirit Ryu. Activate Swords Of Revealing Light, then activate Super Rejuv and Burst Breath. All opponent's Monsters go bye-bye. Then summon Ryu and discard Tyrant and Rare Metal Dragon for his effect. Attack directly for 3000 damg, end turn, and draw 3 Cards (Nobleman, Dimension Fusion, Soul Release). Opponent Sets one Monster. Next turn I finished off the Monster he Set with Nobleman, hit Soul Release and Dimension Fusion and had 2 Tyrants and a Rare Metal Dragon staring at my opponent. Ah, the joys of Spirit Ryu... I think I'll have to build a deck around this Dragon at some time... :laugh:

@Lindsay: Thanks for the show of confidence. I'm really looking forward to seeing your Dragon Deck when it's finished ;)

Spirit Ryu was something that I could never see working.

But I will admit that I am a novice to this deck. I tride it once when i was building that BEWD deck for my lil brother-in-law, but it was dead weight. maybe it was the build, or maybe it was the timing of his plays, but Ryu always stayed at 1000, therefore died early.

BTW, what the heck:

2 masked Dragons
2 Element Dragons
1 horus L.4
1 Horus L.6
1 Horus L.8
2 Armed D. L.3
1 Armed D. L.5
1 Armed D. L.7
2 Spear Dragon
1 Luster
1 Twin Headed Beheamoth
1 Cyber

3 Super Rejuvenation
3 Stamping D
3 Dragon's Gunfire
2 Level Up
1 Graveyard in the 4th Dimension
Premature
Change of Heart
Scapegoat
MST
TTTD

1 Sakuretsu Armor
1 Compulsory Evac Device
1 Magic Drain
1 Dragon's Rage
3 Burst Breath

I sometimes trade out the 3rd Burst Breath for hammer Shot, but in reality prefer the "Dragon TT".

For speed and thinning, I let the Level monsters do their own work. It makes it easier for me to concentrate on other monsters to find with Masked Dragon. That means Element, THB, and Armed Dragon L3. the Level 3 AD is the weakest, as far as field presence, which is why I use Comp Evac and Sakuretsu. I considered dimensionhole, but there are a few changes extra that would need to be done.

I know that Kilroy stated early on not to just shove Horus into a dragon because of its type, but I dont feel it is suffering here. Or preventing the deck from working. It surprised me how easy it is for the Horus monsters to come out, and their "resistance" effects makes them harder for my opponent to do anything about.

THB would be my first cut, in favor of something like Maurauding Captain, simply for the extra summoning. But with 4 actual Tributes, THB helps me bring out Armed D. L.5 in case I cant keep L.3 out for the effect. (or Horus L.6)

With TTTD, Burst Breath, Armed D 5+7 effects, and even the simple "tributing to Special Summon" any of the Level monsters, gives me plenty of fuel to justify the 3 Burst Breath in the deck. There is a lot of Field Nukers here, and with the generally high attack of the dragons I have, the games end quickly.

element Dragon is at home here with the ever coming Wind monsters and the fact that the fire monsters I have tend to stick around.

the biggest weakness I feel this deck has is in the area of S/T removal. Protection for my monsters, counters to their counters. Chains wont go very far in my favor with this deck.

Yes, this is a complete Level Dragon concept, and is by no means a finished work. Im surprised I actually had this many dragons in my collection! THB is the only one I have ever used in other decks. If I could trade my lil Bro-in-Law for his Tyrant Dragon, I would now try more Dragon Decks. (we'll see)

Hope you enjoy

OH, and please feel free to rag on me, because I have a fairly thick skin, LOL. But, like Dragon-Reborn stated, since this isnt a Depot, no fixes or rates. Only comments and ideas for combos it may have given you. You know...strategy.

~squid~

I have a question.

Are rare metal dragons (movie promos) any good in a dragon deck with out lord of d and flute of summoning? It is the last piece of the puzzle I have yet to solve with my dragon deck.

Some advice would be appreciated.

Lindsay

I really like Super Rejuvenation. In the deck I am running it makes great use of a lot of cards, Spirit Ryu, Tribe Infecting Virus, Burst Breath, and Raigeki Break.

In a format without Graceful Charity, this is about as good as it is going to get for Dragon Decks. Activate Tribe's effect, dump a Dragon into the graveyard and activate Super Rejuvy to draw another card. Sure you have to wait till the end phase of your turn, but you're still getting a 1 for 1 trade and actually staying even as far as hand advantage goes, by discarding or tributing, something you don't usually have. Basically this card gives you more option. Hey if I can tribute something for a Horus Lv6 and then get to draw a card at the end of my turn because I did so, I'm all for it. Another thing I like about this, is like I was saying before about discarding Dragons. I think people have to start looking as this the way they looked at Graceful Charity to see it's true potential.

Oh, man, Lindsay. I tried badly to get Raremetal Dragon to work. discarding that with Armed Dragon's effect is brutal.

my failing came in that I didnt have enough Special Summoning cards to make it work. Yes Lord of D is the first thought, but if you go back and read some of the support cards tha D-R mentioned you will find Familiar Knight. Maybe you could also use Marauding Captain, Cyber, lots of recrsion, things like that. But for me, RMD just ended up being dead weight.