of course people wouldn't be as into this game if there were no sculpts, but thats not the predominant reason people play the game. it's like the art on a magic card. very few peopleactully play magic for the art, the art is just flavor. if there was no art on magic cards, the game wouldn't be nearly as popular, and it would take long to play too, becouse most magic players recognize a card by the art and then know what the card does. new sculpts would be worthless if the dial underneath it is unspectacular.

Ok boys and Girls I am bummed out as much as anybody else that sets will be rotated out. I do not want to retire My Colin Yukinov or scorchers but that is the way the grain rolls.

Is there a way to do this better, probably but in terms of practicality for both players and company it would bve counter productive. My suggestion to everyone is this. Wait and see what happens.
Fortunatly I was going to personally retire my dragons fury, CCAF, and for the most part Bannison forces any way, so This set rotation works in my favor. As for the remaining six factions and my oddball mercs, well some armies will never die, others will eventualy be thrown into the wind.
I will wait and see what happens, it might work out for me in the end. wether this will be a faction killer or a colllection ender will be apparent soon enough.

I have no end for this so i take a small bow

What I don't understand is why most people on this thread are being short sided, every single post is only about MW.

WK had to come up with a strategy that would work for ALL of their core lines. Yes they do have other products besides MW!

IMO MW is not even the game that really brought this about but instead MK. MK is on something like it's 6th expansion and 3ed base set. That is a LOT of figures.

So, WK had to come up with a strategy that would bring in new players, increase the amount of boosters people are buying, and make each game line viable for the long run.

------
(This part may be slightly off topic, but something to think about)

So yesterday I went through the list of units from FFE (because you got to figure that will be the first set to be retired when they do announce it for MW, though reading all these posts you would think they already had but anyway).

Elite Infantry - Personally don't use, better infantry out there.
Shock Troopers - Yeah I'll miss but other infantry in the newer sets that can do about the same thing.
SRM Team - Used once, better infantry out there.
Laser Team - Personally don't use, better infantry out there
Raiden BA - Yeah I'll miss these.
Hauberk BA - Personally don't use, too expensive.
Kage BA - I used when FFE was just out, have not used since.
Fenrir BA - Yeah I'll miss these.
Saxon - There are better 1 cap transports out there now.
Giggins - Yeah I'll miss these but there are other 2 cap transports.
Maxim - Yeah I'll miss these.
Thumper - have not used since FFE
Sniper - have not used in a while, better artillery out there for the point value now.
Long Tom - have not used in a while, better artillery out there for the point value now.
Tamerlane - Never used
Jes III - Never used, I don't like high min tanks
Bellona - Some are okay, but there are other good small tanks out there.
Di Morgan - Again not my type of unit but there are other good energy tanks out there.
MASH - Has anyone ever used one of these outside of sealed?
J100 - They will be missed but DA will still be available along with the J-37's.
AgroMech MK II - Yeah, right
AgroMech MK II Mod - Yeah, right
AgroMech MOD-B - Yeah, right
MiningMech MOD-B - Yeah, right
Arbalest - None of these made an impression on me.
Firestarter - None of these made an impression on me.
Legionnaire - Okay, so the BR one is gone, some would say thats not a loss.
Hatchetman - None of these made an impression on me.

When I really looked at it, all the figures from FFE I still play I could replace with figs from newer expansions. I just haven't, it was easier to play what I had. But maybe a prod by the company to keep more up to date is a good thing. It means the game I love will be along long enough for me to keep enjoying it.

Okay, sorry for that slightly off topic tangent!

Okay. Granted WizKids is a business and has to make a profit. Fine. I could swallow 'retirement' IF, and I mean IF, they made some consessions to the fan base and veterans in particular.
1) Bring back the Participation in virtually ANY form. This was the best recruitment tool they ever devised. The excuse they used to curtail it was contrived in the extreme. (Not enough people were sending in vouchers? What?)
2) Continue to adjust the rules to fix unforseen problems and add new concepts to keep the game fresh, NOT to nerf broken figures. Which leads me to
3) Quit with the broken, overpowered units already! The Hoverbike, BR Lego, even the DF SM1 I can accept as goofs. The SS Balac and Arrow IV were deliberate. That or the designers were angry at the player base or hugely incompetent. They have OBVIOUS superiority to the other units in their rank. Putting these units in to drive sales, then nerfing them when the torches and pitchforks arrive fosters BAD customer relations.
4) Sponser at least one unrestricted game per month. With one sealed, and one storyline i.e. two or more restricted games, new players could avoid the sharkpool and still play in most events on an even playing field. This doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out folks.
5) Stop peeing on me and telling me it's champagne.

Corrosion-
1) how does participation awards increase profits? If a majority of those participating each week are players with many useable units, how does giving them free figures make them buy more figures?
2)Question A- How does adding new concepts increase profits? Does that not add new rules that have to be printed and sent out with each set (cost)? Question B- how is new concepts any different from power creep? Eventually those older units without the new features will be unplayable- de facto retirement rather than de jure.
3) But broken units drive sales as people buy more and more boosters to get them. Even the e-bay warrior has to have a supplier on the other side who must buy tons of boosters to get the units to sell. And why should Wizkids care WHO buys them as long as someone is? How does NOT having powerful units get you to buy more boosters? Doesn't it actually drive you to buy less, as your pieces are still useable?
4) Will people buy more boosters if events are unrestricted? What is the connection other than keeping current players with lots of units happy?

I am not trying to be a jerk here. I am playing devil's advocate for a reason. Simply put, someone has to.

The truth is, folks, that gaming companies have ALWAYS had profit problems. They go under all the time. WEG, FASA, TSR - all gone. Gaming is not a very profitable market in the long run.

Eventually players build up enough material that they can cease buying the company's items. It happened to Battletech, Star Wars, StarFleet Battles, and D&D (the granddaddy of them all). I know, I have been role-playing since 1979 and have a closet full of games from companies that no longer exist.

Gaming companies MUST find a way to keep players buying.

Nice to see you came off your mountaintop to pass judgement on others again. I love how you deem it necessary to condemn others whom you know nothing about. I'm still waiting for you to apologize for the comments you made to me about being a cold-hearted individual. I sincerely doubt you spend a quarter of the time I do in volunteer work weekly.

As far as this thread goes... Wizkids says set retirement. I say, "okay". I guess it's up to everyone to deal with this issue in their own way.

Again I put forth the proposal that WK make all campaign game unrestricted. This guarantees regular supported unrestricted play.

Maybe cuz this combined with the further development of the game is a good idea and thats why no one likes to comment on it on this post....cuz well everyone knows this post is about having tea party back and forths over edicit.

Wiz kids need to do create game scenarios like fan pro or like d20 system. Or create a codex like war hammer for a 1800 pt battle games. Also we need maps like Battetech.

Lt. Murgen-I'm Welsh. We INVENTED the Devil's Advocate stance. You are not a jerk, I've seen some jerks since this board started. Don't fall prey to the current "meta-post". Your response was well thought out, if provocative. You don't have to appologise for using your brain as opposed to just venting or posting the knee-jerk party line. (For either side of this issue.) I don't post just for self agrandizement. I have great passion for this game, but VERY little ego involvement. (I'm a minority in that here.)
To answer your questions:
1) There is a dirrect corelation between reward and particpation. This is self evident. WizKids claims they want new players. (So do Tobacco companies. My beef is that WK seems to feel about me the same way Phillip Morris feels about a dying smoker.) WE all got into this game in part due to the shiny freebees. How better to entice a new player than with special pieces just like the Vets have? How better to hang onto Vets than restore something that was taken away from them in the mad rush to look good for the Topps merger?
2) New is always interesting. It doesn't have to obsolete old. Just be different. They is a plethora of untapped abilities, manuevers and equipment in the CBT universe, let alone (gasp) inventing something startlingly new. Remember, this game was new itself once.
3) Short sighted greed is not got for a company's longevity. If you can buy one or two uber pieces off e-bay and avoid the rest of the set, why by cases? Who will by the cases? No the secondary singles retailers. Then THEY get stuck with a ton of #### they can't sell and takes up valuable space. I know of which I speak, I advise a local net storefront. He's ready to bail NOW. Sure, if they want to view us as a cash cow until 'The Next Big Thing' hits and toss us aside. But I guarentee you that NBT won't be one of their products if they treat their fanbase as a disposable resource.
4) ONE, that's all I asked, ONE unrestricted, prize supported event a month. This will not break them. Throw the vets a bone. Our own Government even does this once in a while.
Two words. Avalon Hill. Best game comany ever. Look up their stuff on e-bay, it goes for a mint. They are part of the foscil record now. Even clever companies fail. That still doesn't forgive stupidity. Like people, WizKids is nice on an individual basis and selfish on a group one. Such is the nature of corperations.

'79 huh? Oh, to be seventeen and as sure I was right about everything again. My wife refered to my old game collection as "The closet of shame." Pity it all became air polution in the fire. Maybe you could photocopy some of your favorite oldies for me? If you're coming out to San Diego's Comic Con, I'll treat you to a royal welcome.

lTrain or whatever the spelling I have heard you knock on alot of ideas and not actually put any new ideas forth. A few others have come out and done the same on both sides. If someone has an idea good for them counterpoint it don't just say that idea sucks. Or that would never work or whatever. WHY won't those ideas work come on actually say something positive. As for ideas that might help WK honestly I think they do need to rotate some stuff. They need to use all that CBT history and start letting it run. FIX PROBLEMS. Yes Artillery is a problem. In CBT I used artillery and it was OK but really did not do too much damage and was just a safe form of damage dealing to your enemy. This Artillery army is garbage. Make mechs something a person would want. If a newbie goes to an event and sees his nice mech all ready to go and the guy across from him pulls out his tank drop arty army and wipes the floor with his mech the newbie feels cheated. MECHS ARE THE KING OF THE BATTLEFIELD. When I started out I just wanted an atlas. I loved those. So I bought one. It is going to be retired soon but I still love him. I want Madcats and new Marauders, give me Behemoths and Vixens, Daishis, even Nagas as long as they had new Arty rules. I want Ravens and Awesomes. BRING ON THE ASSUALT LANCES! give me a mech that can move and shoot they have a nuclear powerplant after all they should use it. I want a fast battle where a light lance rushes a single assualt mech and that mech takes all they have to offer and lets loose the fires of hell. Just give me something that has legs and hands or claws or an axe and let me use that to forge a path to victory. Give me more not less. I could happily buy a LE every time I went to a tournament if it was one I wanted. I am even a generous person if someone asks me for help so they can buy one to I probably will do my best. But if I ever have to tell some kid I play with that his army can't be played and really isn't legal anymore I will give him some of my legal pieces so he can play the rest of the match and never return to mechwarrior again. Ohh and give me a Liao pillager. I like the name and the mech.

"Hi ho hi ho. Its off to work I go. To loot and pillage and burn the village. Hi ho hi ho hi ho hi ho.":devious:

First, a lot of my players get excited with the prospect of a continually increasing pool of figs to build armies from...set rotation kills that excitement. My players don't stop buying because they already have enough figs to play with, they KEEP buying because they want broader variety for broader strategies.

Second, there are still 5 colors in use by the other WK games that are not in use by MW...that's at least 20 new SEs. More than MW will ever need, without retiring older SEs.

So, with those two concepts out of the way, I agree that faction purity + mercs should become a requirement and that that is a far better answer than retirement. The folks who then complain that they don't have enough of a given faction to play this way are the ones who are failing to purchase packs to begin with...not the core players who buy through their noses to get all the pieces they can. (I am unemployed, but have managed to buy almost a case of CA since the product came out. No excuse for a staunch supporter--including new or young players--of the game not to be able to put together at least one faction's worth of pieces. Maybe not a champion army, but a competitive army.)

It would be better to have a thousand page FAQ fixing "broken" figs (or better yet revising the rules to make the figs "unbroken") than to retire any set or fig.

charge 2.00 entry fee to all Wizkidds tournaments, then fees are sent to them. simple, I wouldn't complain too much, and would get alot 'o money.

Just curious, do you play faction pure? From your Unit Analysis I would assume no, or at least you don't play Highlanders :) For example our Highlander player stands to lose pretty much of what makes that faction playable today... A lot of the stuff can be found as "equivalents" in later sets if you are not concerned about faction purity, so, yes from that point of view nothing is really "lost" here... Of course, taking that to the next step, why play with ANY artillery other than the SS AAA and Arrow IV's? Etc... It sort of tears out one of the main reasons a lot of us locally even got into the game, identifying with and getting to play familiar factions/Houses, etc... Not trying to be argumentative, but just wanting to point out that there are a fair number of players why stand to lose out a LOT of playable pieces for the "official" events... But, just my opinions as always :) I could be wrong...

Dude, are you even LISTENING to yourself? You're proposing a system that benefits ONLY the players that have invested heavily to this point and completely shuts out new players.

Under your system, the only way a new player could be competitive is if he went online and bought singles through the secondary market -- a system that benefits WizKids in no way whatsoever.

Set retirement wasn't installed to benefit the players that have been buying and playing since the beginning, it was installed so that players who want to join in years down the line can be competitive. They know that the hardcore players will continue to buy, that's not their concern. They're still supporting a tournament format that allows them to play all their figs, new or old.

Enforcing faction purity and then saying "Hey, you aren't willing to drop huge amounts of money in this game? Tough. Enjoy going home empty-handed every week" is socially irresponsible and a real good way to kill this game in the long term. You hear me? In the long term. That is the reason this move was made, and that is also when this move will take effect. The long term.

You wanna complain? Complain. You wanna leave? Leave. But for God's sake, THINK about what you're saying and why you're complaining.