I say the panther is a suprise piece. You'll be suprised if I use it against you.

AND

You'll be very suprised when it's the only one left on the battlefield and all your peices will be sitting in a pile "off" the board.

Don't underestimate the power of the simple piece. Some people like to give you many targets to shoot at, making you think that certain ones are the "core" of his force.

many make that mistake... :)

I think the tank is junk - in a 50 minute game you can't waste your time plinking stuff for 2 damage. You will run out of time before you kill anything, even assuming someone lets you take a shot.

The Panther is unusual in a good way (extremely high potential damage output for a 120 point mech) but I guess I agree with Warflail that its drawbacks (speed and defense) will make it hard to play. Maybe in a Solaris VII environment, with the right skills, you could do well with this.

:) Apparently I'm one of the only people who likes the Panther... Huge damage potential, good attack numbers, decent mech... Of course, playing in a mostly faction pure, Mech heavy vacuum out here in the middle of nowhere where it it FUN to actually play puts a little different perspective on it all... Heck, while they're starting to fix rules, maybe Tankdrop will FINALLY go away.... That and applying Infiltrate rules equally across ALL types to either all get double move, or none.... :) AA has made most VTOLs pretty "cautious", and Artillery isn't quite the terror it once was (barring the few Arrow IV's)... 'course, just my opinions as always...

The tank? Eh, 2 damage, unless that's the only AP the Falcons get isn't enough to bother with...

My problem with the Panther, is that it will have to run away from most infatry. I move anyone of my decent infatry (purifier, HBS, Cavialer, SRM team, ect,) into range, and she has to move, Y? She can shot, and do a whole 1 damage. And if she stays there, i need a decent (not really high, just a good) roll to take her off pulse. The balistic damage is just to darn short....

Just my opinion

wiz kids actually brings out what looks like some nice balanced units and people are complaining that it's not the next arnis...sigh

I agree mistertwig, the biggest failing of that panther is that it will be incredibly vulnerable to infantry. Not just formations of them like other mechs do, but sinle units. If a 2 damage infantry moves into range of this panther, it has to move or face losing its one big advantage, the 8 dmg pulse.

Now that's a thought. What if the Green Turkeys have a lack of AP? That might make things interesting, and make that MBT far more playable.

Anyway, enough of that. The Tank and Mech may seem overcosted, but as others have said once we know what the Turkey's faction abilities are these units will be a lot more balanced.
Although I'm slightly confused as to why the Turkeys get a Panther (Maybe they stage raids on the DC by jumping through Lyran or Ghost Bear territory?), I have to say I like how the stats fit the whole Clan way of war; Fast quick strikes. They may be fragile, but they can dish out a lot of damage with high accuracy.

@Sir_QuidProQuo
Uh, amateur indeed. First of all, stable stats on the Kinnol MBT in NO WAY make up for its poor damage values. A 64 point unit, when your opponent sees it, that does 2 damage will not have a single shot wasted on it: it will be simply destroyed by a single Infantry piece. If I saw this thing in my opponent's army, I would inwardly chuckle to myself at the fact that they wasted 64 points on a sub-par unit, when instead they could have had, say, a SH Aesir, DF Donar, or a transport for their Artillery piece along with points to spare. Even if you try to attribute my unit substitutes to them being 'broken', 64 points gets you x4 16 point Infantry pieces. Those 4 Infantry are a much, MUCH larger threat than this tank. Do I care if it has 2 damage all along it's dial? No. 2 damage can't do ANYTHING in a game, unless either you're finishing off my Salvaged 'Mech or I, for some unknown reason, decide to place my 'Mech with its rear-arc towards you, and leave it there for the next 6 turns. However, the Panther is still quite good, and its shallow dial can be easily attributed to its low cost compared to its potential damage output. However, Shin Yoshida can deal 8 clicks for less (@ whoever said that it perhaps has the most damage for least cost out there). Also, whoever says that the Panther's main weakness lies in the fact that it can Charged easily, why would any competent player Charge it? That's a lot of damage you can easily avoid by taking its low defense to your advantage a different way, say, to use tactics so you have a clear shot at it without retaliation.

Oh well, still happily awaiting the Sylph Battle Armor.

I love the panther, and I think a lot of people are overlooking it. what no one has really mentioned yet in this thread is its great heat dial! To me, a lot of times a good heat dial means a higher level of playability, the more you can use and push a mech without negative effects the better. Another thing to consider is that this mech may be one of the most powerful cheap support mechs out there. I dont know about, but I love cheap power (thats why I play DF,;) ) andusing this mech to support somone like Stefani Ehli, coupled with some VTOLs and infantry, and you have a powerful, heat efficient fighting force.

The tank on the other hand, isnt very useful, especially for its cost, might see use in a few sealed events but I dont think much more than that.

Let me get this right. Cougar has 2 PPCs this has one PPC with pulse for the same damage? I wanna retro fit all my PPCs with this one. What does that have SRM 50? JESII doesn't do that much damage with it's 2 LRM20s & 4 LRM10s. 18 defense? I'll base it with an ATV and DFA with Measho. Speaking of DF notice the range on those SRMs? 0-4" - DF has a range advantage now.

MBT with 2 Primary Damage? Main Battle Tank. MAIN. 2 damage? doesn't sound like a main tank to me. Short dial. Tank commanders must be the punishment if you screw up in CJF. I would want that job and don't want that tank. I'll be trading mine now. Any Clan-fans want mine when I get it?

Things are not looking to good for this expansion....

I dunno, depending on what JF pulls for infantry that little panther could be pretty sweet. Stellar heat, solid attack, damage, decent range. It the Sylphs do come with speed mode VTOL it could be a nice little mech. Base break a Sylph and let 'em have it for 8 two rounds in a row.

while I don't have anything positive to say about the tank, the mech rocks.

maybe because I play SS, but I really like to see things die in firey explosions. I used to my 50 ton mechs having a low defence and a high damage output, its the only way I play.

as for these units not being "the best"- the're not artilery, so why would I even assume they could be?

Ok. You got your point and there are lots of ways to take out a mech with 18 DEF. Of course, the first unit I thought to put against JF Panther was my SS Balac. But I'm still concerned about older factions. I'll hate to see them easily kicked just like that by newer and better ones. Every faction has to improve according to the game itself.

Anyways, that Panther easily beats almost any 120 pts. mech, even DA LEs, speaking mech against mech. And the other thing I don't like is that a Panther is a 35 tonner and it's stats have nothing to do with the original Battlemech, which has some firepower (a PPC and a SRM-4), it is slow (64 km/h), has decent armor for it's size (and technology) and runs hot like hell (10 single standard heat sinks).

And I hope no one say it's modified because all other regular Panthers should have similar or better values since JF unit is Green. And that would be far too much for this classic mech.

Besides everything said before, I also hate that the Phoenix Hawk has the same 18 DEF. And believe me that it has more armor than a standard Rifleman with 8,5 tons of armor vs. 8 (And we haven't seen yet the Rifleman IIC).

"Short dial?" What are you smoking? The MBT has 10 clicks of life, just one click less than maximum, and only one of those clicks is salvage. Say what you want about its (admittedly low) damage value, but don't blatant lies. Sure, it may be a matter of opinion on whether or not this is a useful piece, but don't back up that opinion with lies.

Bah! Bah, I say! I'm really all snuggly and cuddly and stuffs.

If only the Panther had agility. *shrug*