As far as I know, no, yes and yes, respectively. The assault rules say you can't start in base with an enemy and I don't see any info under Quads or Assault to indicate that being able to ignore them helps. I think Salvaged units come under the same heading.

I can confirm it is

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes

As far as i know too...
:)

That's what I assumed - glad that number 1 is a no, otherwise it'd be a tad broke, but with yes to the other 2 answers, I have, as they say, a cunning plan.

More when I've sobered up (bank holiday, BBQ, lots of Pimms, Fosters and Carlsberg... *hic* :) )

Based on D503's suggestion, I've been having a close look at the Jaguar. Thanks for the help on those questions, Highdancer and DrakeClaw.

Now, the thought comes from having an anti-ATV unit that can keep the bases of the GHKs relatively clear.

Here's the config;

Jaguar JGR-20-L-P2G15
Cost : 130 points
Chassis JGR-20-L 98 points
Pilot P-002 (Albion) 9 points
Gear G-015 (Double Rate) 23 points

Use as a means of "running cover" - any ATV within 8 inches is TOAST, thanks to Double Rate. Any ATV in a position to threaten the GHKs and the JGR can rush in and base the target.

The reason to take this over Grapple is that Grapple on the JGR is very easily broken, due to the huge 270 arc.

So, in summary, think about THIS mix;

Sigma Constellation Eye (A)
:^^: Star Commander Helen, Vapor Eagle (GHK-S2F-M-P18) 144 points
Chassis GHK-S2F-M 130 points
Pilot P-018 (Sakhara) 14 points
:^^: Mechwarrior Piers, Vapor Eagle (GHK-S2F-M-P18) 144 points
Chassis GHK-S2F-M 130 points
Pilot P-018 (Sakhara) 14 points
:^^: Mechwarrior Lanya, Jaguar (JGR-20-L-P2G15) 130 points
Chassis JGR-20-L 98 points
Pilot P-002 (Albion) 9 points
Gear G-015 (Double Rate) 23 points
:^^^: Sylph Battle Armor 30 points
448 points

Thoughts?

I am not convinced that double rate is the best way to use the Jaguar for infantry clearing purposes. I would prefer to use the Anti-Personnel Gear for lights, that way an entire formation and be severly injured (or in the case of DF ATV's, the whole formation would be dead)

I was working on a variant of that idea:

Vapor Eagle + Tamar + Pulse = 177 points

Vapor Eagle + Tamar = 140 points

Jaguar + Star Commander + Anti-Personnel = 131 points

448

Pulse is almost an afterthought, except that it makes the Vapor Eagle act a bit more like the Shadow Hawk IIC, get in real close, MDFA, then Pulse target to oblivion. The Jaguar effectively has a 14" anti-personnel shot for 3 on an AO.

Reminds me of MW2, where 3 Mechs were called a Star...

Ooh, trust me, I'd thought of that, but the thing is, if you know you can use a tactic to beat something, you'll lose it - simultaneously, if you know that unit has the power to beat you easily THAT way, you try ANOTHER way.

Now, I am a BIG fan of medium pulse, and the thought of using it on a GHK gives me goose bumps, so that's a big thumbs up in that area. But I the idea behind using the Jaguar is NOT to kill infantry, it's to impede whatever my opponent throws at my GHKs to stop them getting at that nice, big, juicy target. Most of the time, the Jaguar is going to spend it's time interdicting enemy basers to stop them getting a good crack at the GHKs.

It greatly depends on how players use those ATVs. If they formation move then "hallelujah", it's out with the AnPer.

At this point, the real question is: are deep infiltrating ATVs more often used in formation?

The answer tends to depend on what you've got facing them. If I saw an AnP enemy, I wouldn't use them in formation. If I didn't, formation. A swarm of LI ATVs takes, minimum, 15 clicks of damage to kill. Even with a Milagro, that's three turns of killing. Against a triple mech army, they're likely to engage singly, even if they are in formation at some point.

If the ATV's are going to not be in formation, then Artemis IV for lights would seem like a good way of dealing with them. The possible 5 damage means the LI ATV is gone, and since I would be keeping the Eagles far apart (at least 18" away from each other, unless a target that needs multiple MDFA's shows up), it is unlikely that the LI ATV would heal its friends, since either its buddies are out of range, or have not been hit, yet.

Maybe something like this then:

Vapor Eagle + Tamar = 140 points

Vapor Eagle + Tamar = 140 points

Jaguar + Star Commander + Artemis IV = 138 points

:^^^: Sylph = 30 points

448

Multiple hunter units (Sylph and Jaguar), that can hunt light vehicles and infantry respectively, and both can be used to hold units in position to allow the Eagles to do their thing.

New thoughts?

I guess I missed out on some MW lingo somewhere.... what is a "viper eagle"?

Vapor Eagle is the clan name for the Goshawk just like Summoner/Thor and Timberwolf/Mad Cat and so on.

Because everyone's gaga for Goshawks... :)

Goshawk
-Sakhara

Saxon
-Thunder

Saxon
-Thunder

Cardinal
-Sniper Team
-Sniper Team

Cardinal
-EBA
-EBA

Sylph

Shamash

448

First off, the Goshawk. Huh. Let me think. 10/11/21 for 144 points. Gee, maybe? Then we add dual pogs, a Sniper Team drop for anti-infantry options, a Shamash for deep love and a Cardinal EBA drop.

It's fast and aggressive, dropping pogs, DFAing, dropping infantry to swarm victims.... Death all over the place. :)

The problem with this army, as I see it, is that it's extremely short on orders, but I expect that you know that already. I don't really have any fixes, though.

My current build is:

Goshawk, Sakhara, Extra ammo
Goshawk, Sakhara, Extra ammo
Jaguar, Albion, Anti-personnell
Sylph

450 on the nose.

The Jaguar with Anti-personell is the perfect support mech fr 2 MDFAers, the whole army is fast and breaks easily from non-grapple infantry, and the Goshawks retain thier 2 damage ballistic weapon throughout the entirity of the dial, so can hit infantry late in the game.

@ White Knight - I *think* I have a gold Electronic camo for mediums card that I will trade you for an Eyrie.... it will make your Goshawks that bit more shiney :) If not, I can sort you out a regular one. The JF Zeus is no longer on the table im afraid - Ive had it pointed out to me that if I can use an old DF Jupiter and a bit of a repaint to get a Jade Falcon Jupiter with gear slots.....

D503

Short of upgrading to a Blitz or other heavy, not really. It's not supposed to be ownage (I'd put in a Zahn or two for that) and, frankly, a fair amount of it is sacrificial. I fully expect the Thunders to disappear in a cloud of ballistic fairly often.

I like this army one heck of a lot - I see great potential in the Jaguar backing up the GHKs. My personal variant on this is to swap out the Albion and extra ammo stacks for a CJF Star Commander. It isn't QUITE 450 (144+144+131+30=449; Anti-Personnel is 14, not 15 :ermm: ), but is close.

I had toyed with slapping Decoy on the Jaguar - dive into a piece of hindering terrain and that's a very cool combo. Base up a solo ATV and it's still pretty shiney with an effective 21 DV with reroll against anything out of contact. I'd be running 4 points short, but it'd be a little more resilient.

Also pondered putting a JHK in the mix - JHK, GHK and support.

Sigma X-Ray Beak (A)
* Star Captain Tyra, Jade Hawk (JHK-04-H-GS4G56) 235 points
Chassis JHK-04-H 176 points
Pilot GS-004 (Celina Santos) 21+14 points
Gear G-056 (Concussion Ammo) 24 points
:^^: Mechwarrior Jacen, Vapor Eagle (GHK-S2F-M-P18G44) 149 points
Chassis GHK-S2F-M 130 points
Pilot P-018 (Sakhara) 14 points
Gear G-044 (Extra Ammo) 5 points
3 x :^: Shamash Recon Vehicle 22/66 points
450 points

A trio of "Pods" for manouverability and rammage. Fast and fun.

Sigma X-Ray Beak (B)
* Star Captain Tyra, Jade Hawk (JHK-04-H-GS4G56) 235 points
Chassis JHK-04-H 176 points
Pilot GS-004 (Celina Santos) 21+14 points
Gear G-056 (Concussion Ammo) 24 points
:^^: Mechwarrior Jacen, Vapor Eagle (GHK-S2F-M-P18) 144 points
Chassis GHK-S2F-M 130 points
Pilot P-018 (Sakhara) 14 points
2 x :^^^: Raiden Battle Armor 16/32 points
:^^: Cardinal Transport 39 points
450 points

The switch to the Cardinal and RBA pair makes for a decent infantry drop, plus the RBAs are much more resilient than the Pods. In a pinch, the Cardi also makes for a decent baser.

Both of these forces feature JHK-04-H packing Concussion Ammo; this provides a very handy, multi-purpose weapon for comfounding basers - pair of ATVs in range? Shoot the pair - 2 clicks each, plus an order token. If they move to base, they hurt themselves, leaving them open for either a coupe de grace later or simply a break away that'll most likely succeed and bring them a click closer to death. Getting ready to send the GHK on an MDFA (brought to you by "Multi-Letter-Acronyms-R-Us")? Then send the JHK up first and "conc" the most likely interdictors.

The ability to, quite literally, "stop your opponent in his tracks", should not be over estimated.

(Oh, and the reason I paired Phoenix with this rather than Blitz or "01" is that 04 keeps his damage longer and, even without Ryohara, works well from a "down" situation... I always expect to take a hit). ;)