I'll have to settle for a Coke or something. I don't want to get you busted for giving alchohol to minors ;)

Um... speak for yourself spidey.

Not everyone with an opinion different from yours is just jealous because they didn't play on the Varsity team or get a pony for their sweet sixteen.

I have really no desire to be popular, I don't hate the 'pros', and I certainly don't want to be one. (Not anymore, anyways. I kind of think I've outgrown that phase)

I want to play a game and have fun at it. I pretty much have just as much fun as playing Railroad Tycoon as I do playing Vs.

And, to be honest, recently I'm finding I have much more enjoyment playing board games (or RPGs) than Vs.

It's almost as if the Pro Circuit aspect the game has tainted my perspective on the game as a whole. Maybe it's just that people generally take things too seriously when money is on the line (whether its $250 or $40K).

I have met a few of the 'Pro' players. Some I was impressed, and others... not so much. They are people, just like you and me.

A 'Pro' is someone who usually has more time and money available to pursue the game, not much else. Not saying they dont have much else in their life, but there is not much else differrent between them and you.

And lets all remember, one good or bad draw can make or break someone at a tournament level. Watching how people deal with that is really a defininf factor for me. I have seen a few of the top winner lose very gracefully, and still keep a smile on their face. That makes them a winner in my book no matter what. And I have seen some get pissy like 8 years olds told they can't have any pudding.... sadly i saw more of this reaction than the other.

I don't like elitism. I don't like cliques or social stratification. And the only thing I like worse are people that buy into, and fuel, these attitudes.

Now what DO I admire? Contributions and substance. Olav is one of the nicest guys you woudl ever want to meet. I found myself rooting him on in the Seattle 10K after we just spoke for a bit, but he was willing to share. And he liked exchanging ideas, not trying to hoard knowledge and NEVER acted superior to the people he was playing... because he wasn't. And he knew this.

But his latest articles over on Metagame have been brilliant. That is the stuff i admire, giving us something of worth. Sharing of ideas and concepts. Chock one up for the west side Canadians I suppose.

I would take a real nice guy over a 'pro celebrity' any day.

People don't want to be popular. People want to be accepted. And in their inability to accept themselves, they turn to others to fulfill that need.

But acceptance, or love, or popularity, or whatever you want to call it, means very little when coming from outside sources.

The apathy you speak of comes from the fact that some people soon realize that one thing doesn't bring them happiness, so they turn to something else, never realizing the true need all along.

For those that find some success and acceptance from others (whether through marriage, popularity, or whatever), they might feel pretty content to 'settle' for what they have, but it's still just a pale reflection of the joy they could have by simply accepting themselves.

But this society doesn't function very well when people are happy with themselves. People happy with themselves don't buy self-help books, exercise videos, expensive sports cars or Vs cards.

Too deep? Oh well.

Again, this is warming my heart. Just knowing I can copy and paste that whenever my trolls pop up from under their bridges to fling the poo toward Stu. You?

Chad, the last post you made is also truly brilliant stuff. All semantics aside, both views are completely accurate and totally embrace-able. There is no such thing as too deep.

i3ullseye? Yours may be the best of the three. Olav Rules!

I can't believe this thread.

I'm too lazy two look at this whole thread. But My thoughts are there are some 'pros' that are the best people you'd ever want to meet in the game in CAli so I can't complain.

There are also some 'pros' I've met that have been not so nice...

But on a other note it was a really great experience meeting Alex Brown this past weekend and playing him in round two... Turn seven he needs flight to win the game.

Phase Shift FTW, darn.

:cheeky:

Have you ever actually been to a Pro Circuit? Cause it doesn't seem like you have. When Stu describes them as "parties", he's not really that far off. We all go there to have a ton of fun and that's exactly what happens. I've played in plenty of games for a lot of money and I could count on 1 hand the amount of times I've seen someone behave poorly before, during or after a game. The worst of what I've seen has been a player cursing his bad draw, which is pretty mild if you ask me. It's a credit to the players of this game that the Pro Circuits are as friendly and laidback as they are. Yes a few people take things too seriously but they're a vast minority.

That is absolute bible, people. God's honest truth. Aside from buying booze for minors, there is virtually no evil amongst us.

On the message boards, we tend to puff out our chests and hurl insults and get our quills up sometimes. But it never infects our tournaments. Never.

I had no idea there were women in the tribe. Apart from the mythical ones on the cards, that is. You're welcome to breed with as many cards as you can, though.

The game would die so fast you'd think the flash killed it. If the same people don't routinely do well at the PC, everyone would think that the PC was more about luck than about skill. No one buys hundreds of dollars worth of cards to prepare for an event that's more like a lottery.

"I worship stu barnes more as a rapper then a VS player."

Stu

You can rap too! you truely are a man of many talents.

About the topic at hand, I for one really admire the pro players, because they have taken a love in their life and made it a profession. To me that is what I want to do with my life, not necisarrily VS but just something I love, (but VS would be nice) When I see these players on all the top 8 lists and in the articles my only thought is that i would be awsome to play agains an opponent of that calibur. And that's what made me want to even play competative VS. To one day hopefuly be good enought that someone will read my name and say that it would be awsome to play against me in the top 8 somewhere. I see the pro's as a target. to be as good as them and to hopefully find a group ok Vs players dedicated enough to help each other like the great teams we have now.

Just my 2 cents
-Mike-

As much as I hate what you said, I can't help but believe this as the gospel truth.

If players didn't win consistently, there would be a death of the game because of the game being so very lucky.

You give humanity too MUCH credit here. You are flat out, point-blank wrong when you say people do not want to be popular. SOME people don't want to be popular, and those people often do things behind the scenes. Those people tend to be introverted to some degree or another.

Some people really, truly like to be right in the thick of the spotlight. They want EVERYONE to know who they are when they walk into a room. Often, they don't care if those people like them or hate them, the mere fact that those people know who they are is enough. Those people tend to be extroverted. Some want popularity (to be both known and liked) some just want to be known.

Some people are as you say, and are using popularity to find happiness, or to fill a void in their lives. Those are the people who tend to move onto something else, and not stick with something because they love that type of life. Of course the examples you provide have a basis in reality.

But to say that people don't want to be popular? Preposterous, I say. Of COURSE there are MANY people who want to be popular, to be KNOWN, RECOGNIZED and LIKED for who they are by a large number of people, for no other reason than to be known and liked (which is, you know, the definition of popular)!

popular
pop·u·lar
adj.

1. Widely liked or appreciated: a popular resort.
2. Liked by acquaintances; sought after for company.
3. Of, representing, or carried on by the people at large: the popular vote.
4. Fit for, adapted to, or reflecting the taste of the people at large: popular entertainment; popular science.
5. Accepted by or prevalent among the people in general: a popular misunderstanding of the issue.
6. Suited to or within the means of ordinary people: popular prices.
7. Originating among the people: popular legend.

Now this I will partially agree with. The entire advertising industry and, in fact, a huge portion of other industries are dedicated to nothing more than giving people things that give them the most brief and ephemeral moments of happiness.

Hollywood (not the artists who are really making movies, and putting themselves into roles as deeply as they can for the sake of the experience, but rather, all of the BS that goes with it...the hype, the following of the lives of stars, the "reporters" of the industry, etc.) is specifically designed to leech off of the needs of those whose lives are not fulfilling enough.

But those aren't the people who are DOING, those are people who are content with WATCHING as others do. They don't have the will or the drive to actually get out there and live their own lives, instead "living their dreams" by watching the lives of those who are richer, prettier and generally (far) better off. This is the same drive that leads some overcontrolling parents to live vicariously through their kids. Pageant moms and crap like that, forcing or coercing their kids into lifestyles and careers that they, the parent, wish they had.

But you know, some people buy expensive sports cars because they like to drive as fast and safe as they possibly can. Some people buy games (like Vs) because they LIKE TO PLAY GAMES. Some people watch sports, others like to play. I dare say that people who actually PLAY a game like Vs are less likely to be the kind of personality you describe than someone who religiously watches other people play sports like baseball, football, and the like. I would find a person who dedicates a large part of their life sitting down and socially playing a game with someone else...which is, you know, an actual interactive activity...as being far more grounded than someone who dedicates a large part of their life watching what other people are doing.

I dare say that this country could do with MORE people who want to be popular, and LESS people who are content to WATCH people who are popular. To be popular is to be both known and respected by many people, especially one's peers (at least, that is the current meaning...it used to mean it was something the "commoner" or lower class of people liked). Popular people who love their lives often make great strives in science, in philosohpy, in exploration and in the long-term healthy growth of society. This is because their popularity gives their views and ideas CLOUT. Popular people who hate their lives are rarely popular for long.

But you are right that our current model of society in the US wants less popular people. Popular people often think for themselves, are vocal about their opinions, and generally aren't conductive to a corporate state. The government and many arms of the corporate world alike have a vested interest in making sure that people are CONTENT, not HAPPY. Happy people generally like what they do for a living, like the society they live in and the people they associate with, and like who they are. Content people are merely satisfied that it isn't worse than it is.

I'm entirely willing to live with that flaw :)

Nice post.

Heh, yeah, I wish people were as deep and complicated as all that. But most, especially in this country? Gah. I think not. It would be nice, though, if people could see the things in themselves they like and hold onto them, identify those things they don't like and strive to CHANGE THEM, and not just live vicariously through others.

Im too leet for this shirt.
Im too leet for this shirt.
So leet that it hurts.

And Im too leet for this thread
too leet for this thread
that it hurts my leet head

Im a Pro Star
You know what I mean
And I play my little deck on the tour
On the tour yeah
On the tour yeah
I steal your init
on the tour

And Im too leet to reply