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I know this is the part where you bleat on about Hellboy and gallery packs and blah blah blah how could any company that actually bothers to introduce new products (*gasp*) be called "timid", so I'll just pre-emptively point out that such arguments are really kind of besides the point.
No, I completely understand and I still hear a bit more control in your voice. I want to respond in kind and stay intelligent, since the personal shilly stuff really isn't much fun for anyone.
I still think that you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy on something that you consider to be "rinky dink", but I understand now where you were coming from when you said it.
And I really like how this thread turned out. Thanks for being such a productive part of it. We are watching Devil Wears Prada right now (for the third time) and you remind me alot of Meryl Streep.
Can you cite this? This doesn't seem correct to me.
At the beginning of this year, our first Sneak hit over 1000 plays for YGO... just on Saturday. Our Regionals average well over 300 players. There might be a ton of kids buying Beyblade but I don't think that YGO pales next to it.
As for redemption cards for random prizes, I would like to point out that in the early Hobby League days, UDE tried to do scratchoffs for computers, video games etc. It didn't do very well because I think the Alienware computer was won the very first week. The point system is better because UDE can have some control over what gets traded for and so forth. I'm sure that people will spend points for non-release EAs or even alternate arts or stackers. But I think that the difficulty will be in the administration of this program... which maybe all those WoW sales can fund... heh.
Okay, I can't for the life of me figure out what he gets out of being so bitter about everything, and I love the idea of Vs. System loot.
What would you want to pull?
Limited edition comics? Dinner with The Chark? Autographed cards? Vs. System hockey jerseys? Hand-drawn sketchagraph cards? EA Enemy of My Enemy? Airfare to a vacation PC? The chance to design your own card?
And, when you are done dreaming of Vs. System loot, tell me this. How in the hell does he get off even trying to call this game "rinky dink"? It was the fourth best seller this month behind Yugi, Magic, and Pokemon. It has been hailed at the best competitive mechanic in all of Trading Card Game history. The Gallery Packs are a new level in collecting and the playmats blazed a trail that will last forever. Three years of solid expansions with Hellboy on the way. "Rinky Dink"? What happened to that man's integrity?
Oh no! Stu attacking an opinion just because it doesn't mirror his? Oh... wait that always happens. I would like to see something like the old baseball card pack in where one out of every xx00 people gets a card that enables them to send the winning card + twenty or so dollars shipping to receive a complete set of that sets rares. Unrealistically nice? Maybe. Cool none the less? Absolutely.
Can you cite this? This doesn't seem correct to me.
At the beginning of this year, our first Sneak hit over 1000 plays for YGO... just on Saturday. Our Regionals average well over 300 players. There might be a ton of kids buying Beyblade but I don't think that YGO pales next to it.
YGO's current intake total is estimated at about $10 billion worldwide since its original printing, which is certainly not tiny, but that includes animation revenue and the affiliated toy markets and video games. The figures I've seen for Beyblades pin it at about $15-20 billion worldwide since its introduction; I can't find the exact article online just now but I read it in Forbes about six months ago. The difference tends to be the fact that Beyblades has a higher "cost satisfaction factor" - IE, it takes more money spent on Beyblades to feel satisfied for the average consumer than it does on YGO.
It doesn't have to be watched carefully at all to prevent abuse; just cap it. Nobody can ever get more than X PC points lifetime through loot renewal. (The obvious cap is ten points; "yes, if you buy enough VS, you can go to a PC *once*, but after that it's on you.")
Hmmm, that certainly would prevent the majority of abuse, but I think we can do better than a broad stroke rule that eliminates the possibility for casual players to enter more than one pc on loyalty alone.
The abuse I meant was more of the "selling pc points on ebay" kind....
While UDE would definitely want to promote loyalty with such a program, I'm not so sure they'd like the idea of pc passes being sold to the highest bidder online..
Although ultimately I suppose the packs containing those points would have to be bought by someone, ensuring at least the sales, it would simultaneously provide the opportunity for people who either didn't want or need pc points to profit from them....
I think this could be avoided, but as of yet I havn't come up with an effective idea of how....
$10bil to $15-20bil isn't pale and still doesn't sound very accurate.
And... this doesn't take into account the secondary market that I'm pretty sure Beyblade doesn't really have. I assume those numbers are gross so the comparison of net profit may differ.
You need to also consider revenue for CCGs to include anything made on tournaments and peripheral things that make up a CCG market. Taking this into account, I think the numbers are closer than that. When I hear people compare toys to CCGs, it's a tough comparison because toys don't create many secondary products (except maybe for Hot Wheels).
Maybe UDE should put Beyblade loot into VS packs if that property is so huge.
I guess the whole thing about this is trying to capture new players. Most of the current audience will stay with VS as long as they keep making it, loot or not. The introduction of loot is meant to entice new players to buy product. I understand this goes against the chdb marketing theory of what incentive programs are for, but since when could you box the "collectible market" into any type of marketing model? I'm sure that if any CCG company knew the exact formula to make people buy their product they would milk it (Duel Masters anyone?)
Maybe redeem points for subscriptions to comics? Free entries to PCQs or 10k/50ks?
I disagree strongly, but I will not attack you for it. New Year's resolutions and all.
And I love your loot idea. Let's take it a step further. Redemption cards good for one complete foil set. Seems good.
I could spend one minute bringing up old posts about how it's hard for new writers to post their articles because of fear of being attacked online, and then find a post where you attack (insert name) because he writes an article on his opinion of the state of the game... etc etc etc. You know I won't go there though because anyone who really cares can find it on their own. I'm not perfect... you're not perfect... in the end I really couldn't care less because it's still me attacking you for attacking someone else (I.E. pointless sorry for bringing it up I guess). I have mine and you have yours like we both said.
In line with the topic though I think that a complete foil set would probably be the coolest thing they could ever do. I was thinking that they could just do the set of rares thing because it honestly wouldn't cost that much and could be a relatively common occurance. I really think that it would be a HUGE boon for the average card purchaser as well as the collector. I mean how cool would it be to crack your first pack of the new set and see a card that says "Congrats!! For S/H costs you get the ENTIRE SET (OF RARES/FOILS)!!" That's incentive enough for me to buy at least a box on top of what I usually buy and that really doesn't lose UDE ANY money. All it costs is the production costs of X amount of prize cards which by all means shouldn't be in excess amount anyways. All I know is that as a kid it was absolutely gratifying to bust that pack of baseball cards and instantly get all the MVP cards or whatever it was for given year. So come on UDE you do it for your baseball cards what is so hard about simply applying a winning concept to your other cards?
I think that a complete foil set would probably be the coolest thing they could ever do...
I mean how cool would it be to crack your first pack of the new set and see a card that says "Congrats!! For S/H costs you get the ENTIRE SET (OF RARES/FOILS)!!!"
I love the ides of having counters/tokens. Makes me think back to the awesome Unglued lands and Squirrel tokens you got in Magic. Something like that in VS would make me leak various sorts of bodily fluids all over the place*.
That said, I don't think it would be big enough for a rewards program. Things like a Green Lantern hockey jersey, complete foil set or playmats sound great. Even things like playmats and deck-boxes are somewhat limited since you can only get them at Pre-releases so it would be nice to have another shot at getting them. Complete set of foils sounds the absolute best.
But we still need Squirrel tokens in VS!!!! *wanders off to paint up a placard and organise a group to stand out in front of UDE headquarters*
Ability for player to get to design a card. (R&D approval of course)
Each PC winner i'm sure would like something like that.
This would be nice. To avoid broken cards though, players shouldn't get 100% control over the design of the card. It's still going to be R&D's call, but being involved in the card creation process is an idea that I like pretty much (kind of similar to Legend of the 5 Rings).