Given that, how on earth could you possibly dislike a plot twist that searches for it? Play two copies of At Your Service in your deck, and now you effectively have 6 copies of Brains and Brawn. Surely it's worth a discard of a character to get BandB. You are on turn 5. Your field is stunned. You desperately need Brains and Brawn. You have a useless 1 drop in hand. What would you rather have in your row, a second Hook-Up you haven't discarded for yet, or an At Your Service?

IMO, if you believe that Brains and Brawn is the best plot twist in the deck, you have to believe that At Your Service is worth playing. Yes, The Hook Up is good. Trade a useless card for a potentially great one. But half the time you get another worthless one instead. Or a plot twist you don't need. With At Your Service, you are trading a useless character card for the best plot twist in your deck. Complaining about the discard cost is like faulting Mobilize or Enemy because they require a discard, and no one would ever do that.

[/rant]

Well, At Their Finest is a card that you should be able to plan to play. I agree that having to search for it a turn ahead of when you would use it makes it tougher to make in games decisions. However, I'll gladly trade that for extra slots in the deck because with AYS, I don't need to run 4 copies of ATF.

Well, it is "akin", but not exactly the same. Brains and Brawn is a situational card, so ideally, if you could control when you get it that would be the best case scenario, as in, when you control Batman and Superman and would like to recover either one or both. If I don't control them, or don't need to recover them, then I would want to draw something else.

Ahmed is not situational. You don't play a deck with Ahmed in it without intending to recruit him on turn 3 every game. It's pretty hard to win a game with a deck that revolves around Ahmed without recruiting him, hence the 4 copies plus all the search. It's very possible to win a game without using Brains and Brawn, good as it is.

I agree B&B can turn the tide in turns 4-6, but I don't think it's necessary to play an average of 1 copy each of those turns to do it. If you do, all the more reason to play with a card to search it up because the games where you naturally hit that many during those turns will be few and far between.

Some of these things go back to the Oracle debate which occurred earlier in the thread. She addresses these issues quite well. I also don't think you're valuing the Hook-Up too highly since hitting it early/multiple copies means you'll see a lot of your deck. Although, I think Maggie is superior to Lois in that regard b/c she allows you to team up by herself, and can be pitched to AYS if you don't hit the Hookup. A free Lois would be awesome if I could find a way to fit finishing move into the deck.

As for From the Darkness, I think it's really only a 1 or 2 of in the deck as it is, because you're right, BGYT is better, what with all the restrictions FTD has, but it's still worthy of a slot especially if you can just search for it the one time you'd like/are able to use it.

The reason why EomE is so good is the reason why AYS is so good in this deck. AYS might as well read:

Discard a GK card.

Play ATF next turn. OR
Play B&B. OR
Play BotB. OR
Play FTD. OR
Play Break You. (yeah right!)

Get a character named Batman.

The card gives you a ridiculous amount of flexibility and utility to adapt to the situation you are in during a game.

You forgot about that single copy of the new Batmobile. :)

Oh boy:

I was responding to edawg's comment about playing less copies of BnB and play AYF instead.

I completely understand that trading a bad card for a good card is great.

This has come up in testing a few times that has led me to have a bad taste for this card: Say you have a dead character and a Hook-Up in play. Do you loot to the Hook-Up, or do you hold in on the chance that you draw a character? With cards that you want to row - like more Hook-Ups - and have an exhaust cost - Bat Signal - there is a huge incentive to loot aggressively.

Let me clarify: It's not the discard I'm complaining about, it's the fact that you have to discard a Gotham Knights character. This is a huge deal. In Silver Age we've been spoiled with cards that return to themselves to your hand and generic recursion. This doesn't exist in Modern. You discard it, it's gone. You draw it you have to hold on to it. As such, I find that if you're aggressively looting with the Hook-Up you will draw into gas twists, your curve, and probably power-ups.

Again, maybe it's because I have the wrong mentality, but I tend to loot extremely aggressively and that may be why I don't see it's as good as you. It might be because I'm cheating on my character count too.

I totally feel you: Believe me, I'm all too familiar with the need to squeeze space in this archetype.

Ultimately, the issue is that drawing At Your Service isn't equal to At Their Finest.

For me in control decks you want your search cards to very efficient and flexible. On a given turn you may be presented with "Do I search now for ATF, or do I hold it next turn for BnB" You don't have a leeway to wait until the last minute to see which option is better.

This is another argument for why I do not believe AYS can substitute cards like ATF and BNB in the deck.

I would disagree with BnB being situational. Modern is filled with decks that attack. You win many of these games by forcing them to keep running into Superman which at worse saves you life, and at best decimates their board.

I have yet to win a game that did not involve me playing BnB over the course of turns 4-6.

Again, how reliably you can fire this card is the issue for me.

[quote]
Some of these things go back to the Oracle debate which occurred earlier in the thread. She addresses these issues quite well. I also don't think you're valuing the Hook-Up too highly since hitting it early/multiple copies means you'll see a lot of your deck. Although, I think Maggie is superior to Lois in that regard b/c she allows you to team up by herself, and can be pitched to AYS if you don't hit the Hookup. A free Lois would be awesome if I could find a way to fit finishing move into the deck.
[quote]

Agree with maggie being insane. I think Lois is too cute myself, as you can reasonably end the game on seven.

I also believe that if you are going to run AYS you should definitely run FtD. I don't think FtD should be used to justify running AYS though.

I've covered this earlier, but I feel the entire act of having to hold GK characters is very unflexible.

This card is certainly not bad, I believe it is VERY overrated.

Well, we could probably go back and forth awhile, but without comparing builds, it would be hard to comment on some of the issues you brought up, like having to hold onto GK characters.

One more thing though. I think part of the argument is just how useful is Brains and Brawn? You said that it is not situational by mentioning that there are a lot of decks that attack. That, in itself, is situational because it is dependent on your opponent, how and what he decides to attack you with and whether you have Batman and Superman on the board at the same time. That is also a source of debate, just when you do you field the World's Finest and in what order? Again, making B&B situational.

No doubt B&B is a ridiculous card. However, depending on your build, you will get similar results with different cards. ATF can be huge when your opponent has the initiative because you'll likely be able to negate combat pumps with BGYT, Flying High and to a lesser extent FTD. In this scenario, they might not even stun your guy, much less multiple guys, which makes B&B less useful.

I guess I'm just saying the deck has a LOT more options than just B&B to deal with combat decks that will come into play just as much as B&B if not more. This again, though, depends on deck construction.

Yea, I came into the thread late, and didn't see the whole context of your post. My bad.

I still don't understand why you can't see the value of this card, though. You say you are aggressively discarding GK characters for The Hook Up, then say that having to discard one for At Your Service is bad. What the heck?!?! That makes no sense at all. Discarding a GK character for an unknown result is good; discarding one for a known great card is bad. Probably the best thing you could get with The Hook Up is a Brains and Brawn, yet you don't like the idea of discarding for AYS to get one?

I agree that the deck is tight on space, and it's hard to know what to cut to make room for At Your Service. But I really believe that it's worth at least 2 slots, just to effectively give you 2 more copies of Brains and Brawn.

The issue is that because The Hook-Up is higher on your list of priorities it will be out first - that and you're probably going to be playing more copies of it. You really want to discard to the Hook-Up and the inevitable result of aggressive looting is you - in my experience - usually end up with a hand of all gas and needed drops going into the mid-game.

At this point, where you really want AYS to search out the right weapon you are unlikely to have characters that you can discard to it.

Well, I guess we should agree to disagree on this one. It seems utterly inconceivable to me that someone who says that "Brains and Brawn is the biggest reason to play this archetype" can't see the value in a tutor that can fetch it (and several other key cards in the deck). But apparently I'm wrong.

Founding Member >>> Problem Solver. PS only works during combat... it's soooo easy to play around. The only advantage to PS is against rush you can drop him visible.

Batman >>> Babs. With Babs you pretty much give up the first 3 turns of the game. And if you get stuck with odds, you're now just getting beat on for 4 turns in a row. You'll lose to rush. Rush is a tough matchup as is -- you'll need no cost Supes with Brains and Brawn (which means you have to have Batman on 3).

And if you play Revenge Squad, you'll wish you had Founding Member. Knowledge is Power on Superman -- bye bye.

Not to mention FM shuts down Modern Age Bizarro decks too. I don't know how much people will try to run it in Modern, as it drops off in consistency. But it's certainly still doable.

1 copy of Babs isn't bad to sub in later to avoid uniqueness.

I'd say 4x FM, 1x PS and *maybe* 1 babs to sub in, if you have room.

Also, Soaring to New Heights > Savage Beatdown. Wow Barnes, I can't believe you'd suggest Beatdown over it! Would you tell a FF player to take out their Clobberin' Times for Beatdown? No stunbacks is sexy. You don't really have to worry about crossing people over much with this deck. If you go toe to toe and curve out with your opponent, odds are you'll win as this is probably the best curve deck in MA.

1x Best of the Best was worth running without a way to search for it. It saved me quite a few times and I was never sad to see it. With Bats on 3 and LSoK on 4, you could play it on turn 5 or at the start of 6. Or if you got to turn 7 with you having your preferred evens, you could BotB their 6 bouncing LSoK and Deterrent Force their 7. Shall we just goto turn 8 now and not bother with your init? TDB, hey we agree on something! :) Kara on 8 is pretty solid.

I gotta admit, amongst our group I was the last to buy in to Maggie, but I finally did. At least 1x if you're running LSoK. Bat Signaling to meet loyalty-reveal is a life saver.

Well think of it like this its rather pointless to search out At Your Service. Then thats only leads to you drawing into the card. Im pretty sure theres better cards you would want to see other than at your service. It seems very limited in the situations that it could be good in whereas just playing better cards over at your service.

I apologize for my slowness of wit in all matters. However, when what I am reading from people who I respect is different from what I have tested, I am eager to see where exactly the difference is.

I will test the card some more, thank you guys for your helpful insights.

I'd rather discard to AYS. Isn't it better to know what you're getting? AYS is amazing. Too many times I've done this, "I'll pitch Krypto for the Hook Up." Then I draw.... another Krypto. Argh.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Hook Up. Awesome ability for a team up. But being able to silver bullet key plot twists or having more tutors for a late drop Batman is amazing.

I'll say this, UDE has done Bats & Supes proud in the last year. If anything, there's TOO much good stuff for the deck. :)

It's not an issue of whether of whether you loot or search.

The issue is you're more likely to encounter situations where you have an active Hook-Up but NOT AYS. In this situation, are you better off looting or holding your cards?

But clearly I missed something, as I said, I'll test some more. Again thank you all.

Hey, I understand all your points, Paul. Playing the build you are playing now, you are aggressively discarding to Hook Up to improve the quality of your hand. All those dead low drops are getting discarded to get your high drops and your plot twists. By the middle of the game, you often no longer have any spare characters to use as discards for At Your Service. I get that.

I just think At Your Service is a bomb of a plot twist that is worth making room for and altering your playstyle for just a bit. If you draw into it turn 3, let's say, maybe you don't discard for Hook Up that turn, even though you flipped it to team up. AYS can get you your next Batman (whatever that is--depends on the build), At Their Finest, Brains and Brawn, Best of the Best if you play it, a 1-of equipment like Batmobile if you want to play it. That's amazing. I don't think it's a 4-of in the deck, but I do think it's a killer 2-of addition to the deck.

You may have missed the last thing he said about this. In his build, he doesn't have Superman on the field until turn 5, so until then it's just a +3 ATK pump. In builds that play Last Son as the main 4 drop, it gets its defense boost a turn earlier, making it a stronger card. In his build, I can certainly believe that Savage is a better card, because then you just swing up with a smaller guy, and swing down with your biggest, and create field advantage in that way. Plus, he wants to take down their biggest guy with Batman 4 if possible, and Savage better facilitates that.

I assume Batman, Shadow = Batman, Cape & Cowl on 6 and Cassandra Cain = Cassandra Cain, Death's Daughter on 5.

If you use Supes, Deterrent Force on 7....how do you get around uniqueness from your 5 drop supes?