a good way to do the starter thing while putting good stuff in them is to run with the legends Idea. Make a starter for a legend on each major team include like two of each of their non-rare legends cards and one or two "random" rare cards for that legend. this gives newbs easy access to familiar characters as a draw, plus older players will by them as quicker ways to get cards for the legend you want. Imsgine how many of these things woulda sold if they came out for MVL and DCL, I don`t know about everywhere but somone wanted to play pretty much every single legend MVL had and this could have helped us finish a lot of decks that we just never had the cards for

Umezawa's Jitte was in a preconstructed MtG deck during its time (the rat deck, IIRC). This fact did not reduce the Jitte's value in the least. It just sold a heck of a lot of rat decks. Same for Sensei's Divining Top.

Powerful cards always end up becoming scarce, because a lot of people want them and are willing to pay a lot for them or buy a lot of packs for them. That's the way it is. That's the way it's always been. In fact, by not printing more of these chase cards, UDE is making it a moot point to even bother chasing for them. I know I passed up on a whole bunch of rares I wanted to trade or buy a lot of cards for on both MVL and DCL, precisely because I figured it was next to impossible to get a full set of them.

You want to make your chase cards rare enough that not everyone can just acquire a full set of them effortlessly, but you don't want them to be so rare that people are discouraged from even trying to collect them because of their insurmountable scarcity.

my sentiments exactly

I know many hate to hear this, but golden Age should be made the Money tournament...

Hear me out first...
There have been so many reprints of cards from the origins sets of both Marvel and DC that the claim that Golden Age tournaments will hurt more than help is clearly a fallacy.
Everything that made Doom and CE vicious to play against back in the day is now legal once again. Teen Titan decks can run their favorite TTG plot twist because it is legal as well. There’s practically nothing different between then and now for deck construction other than the fact that the Meta has changed so that those decks can't dominate from turn 1... If that is so and I believe that it clearly is: lest bring back Golden Age tournaments.

I believe the fact that in the beginning of VS, the error was made to lend this game wholeheartedly towards those who understood the concept of a metagame. I consider this one of the main tenants of failure that UDE should avoid in the future if VS is going to continue to grow stronger and carve a greater niche into the TCG arena. In the beginning we played a game called VS, but it really should have been called the Metagame because for all intents: that's what it was.

For the life of me, I could never understand why not just make two games. One for the Meta group and one for those who heard that there was a new game where one could sit down and play card wars between villains and heroes. The latter of the two groups would still be content and persistent in playing out the card scenarios even today while the other groups probably would have run out of gas cannibalizing one another. I thought that way back then...

Anyway, I still feel the tourney and the overall health of the game really took an upswing when Legends were introduced. Now if we just get rid of the last traces of support for Meta in the form of Modern/Silver over Golden, I believe that once the word gets out that it is possible to be competitive with a Superman deck: health and prosperity can't be around the corner.
What am I saying: Silver and Modern are good formats, but they are designed in favor of that other TCG called the Metagame. If and it’s been widely publicized that VS must prove itself and can not borrow money from other successful TCG such as WOW and Yugi to supplant any of its short comings... Lest us also stop leaning on the metagame for the success of our game which is actually the game called VS.

Again, hear me out and consider,
I have been waiting what 41/2 years to prove how strong the Negative Zone was/is... mainly because the metagame was there to help support this fact right. No, the metagame was not there to support this concept; it was just my nerdy fan boy intuition that said wait for it - that's it.
That's the type of customer I hope UDE steers this game permanently to...

It's the branding of the matter just like Karrigi said...

I am Silkmane

I am going to completely pass by the issue of how Golden Age mechanically is an issue. There are other threads for that.

Let's talk about pure business.

If you are not forced to buy new cards to play this game (either in competition or in Hobby League or to have your team updated.) then UDE makes no money. No money, no game.

M:tG has proven anything it is that a tournament cycle creates a demand for product. People never would have bought some of those sets if it wasn't for the fact they had to to compete. Whatever level they were competing at.

Collectible card games are designed with the idea that business needs to be perpetual. If you want to just provide people with a game to play and no need to update then market a board game.

Didn't they make the two games you mention? I can play spider-friends versus sinister syndicate. Or I can play rigged election or ten teams in a tournament.

Telling people that they have to buy a backlog of cards from almost 5 years ago to compete for money is the business equivalent of putting a gun to your own head.

And can we all agree that there would be cards from way back when that would need to be purchased by every player to be competitive in Golden Age?

The whole idea of a modern age is to say "see? you can hop on now and play and be on par with the big dogs." Of course that is also predicated on the idea that modern product is available...but that is a seperate issue.

I understand the desire to play GA superman or any other deck. I long for it to. But to imply that the game was designed as a malicious bowing to the metagame? Seems a little harsh and a little out of touch.

Especially if you are calling on the game to support comic scenarios. Aren't we getting both? Civil War avengers that will probably play well in a tournament AND will fight well against Crime Lord/Hydra?

Other than the fact that you want old cads to be used in tournaments what of your point are you NOT getting from Vs. right now?


PD

If newer cards are AS powerful or MORE powerful than the original cards, then there is no NEED to buy the older cards to compete. Done correctly, the newer cards should be power crept a little in order to drive people with the older cards to WANT to buy the new product, thus putting the pressure on the market to maintain new players as well as older players.

That doesn't mean Golden Age cannot be utilized ever. IT just means that from a business perspective the more MODERN Age focus is more logical to make money from.

But with 3 Ages to play VS in, the "PC" / Big events can and likely should feature ONE of those every 4 months. On as close to a fixed rotation as possible, allowing players to plan and save for trips as far in advance as possible.

But I fear VS IS too close to flying by the seat of it's pants to be able to do that right now.

The loss of some of the other events has drastically hurt the chances to team up with other events and coincide a "PC" with something like Gen-Con.

Can you imagine UDE sponsoring their OWN convention? $30.00 for a single day or $75.00 for the entire weekend? A UDEck box with score pad and UDE pen/VS pen/ Yu-Gi Oh! pen with each paid entry?

Players would complain about the price. And if the price was lowered, players would complain about the distances they have to travel. And if the event included free transportation, players would complain about the lodging available. And if the rooms were reserved and free, people would complain saying that UDE was only doing all of THAT to lure people back to the game, and then would complain about the lack of money. Again. And if UDE through the money back at the game after all of that, players would just complain that the money should never have left.

UDE and it's people have to take anything people complain about with a grain of salt. It's tough to tell when a complaint is actually rooted in something bad or just people's....no GAMERS' need to complain as though they are the only ones that can solve/resolve/fix something. IT is that personality trait that makes gaming appeal to us in the first place. It is also that mentality's tend to lend itself to addiction that makes us damn near the perfect consumers.

Money might come back. It might not. Card counts might increase in packs. They might not.

I WANT lot of things to happen. But if UDE has to wade through a mountainous list of players tossing out their partially thought out ideas in order to find any gems to utilize, well, who'd even want to have to read through that many posts of sarcasm and negativity?

Golden Age should have a season, just like Silver and Modern. The banned list CAN be revisited if need be to maintain balance for the game. Or things can be left as they are. None of you are going to quit the game over that.

However, that would require they start doing that. Instead, they have been intentionally avoiding reprinting certain Golden Age cards [Roy, Reign of Terror, Enemy of my Enemy]. Instead of focussing on:

(a) Making cards "as good as or better" than every card available in Golden Age

AND

(b) Balancing the new cards with every card available in Golden Age

They are focussing on Silver and Modern, and making that format fun and balanced.

Making the new cards better so people want them anyway is all well and good ... however that doesn't address existing combinations in Golden Age that aren't addressed because it is not played in enough big events to get calls for bannings to be quite loud.

They have said that a 'super' mega weekend will likely take place at Gen Con Indy. In general ... the World Championship has an event that spans many days. The Megas have multiple days of events ... but each event takes a single day. [Frankly, the latter is probably the better way to go anyway, as it makes it easier for players to participate in different formats]

It wouldn't be a convention ... it might be an "event" run by a PTO effectively ... comparable to some of the 10Ks, or the PCs that weren't attached to a convention. And charging that much when you really only have Upper Deck in attendance wouldn't really be a good idea. Most conventions can charge that because of the sheer number of different options you have available, as well as likely a large choice of vendors, often artists, writers, actors, etc doing signings.

Instead of a convention, it would be more like the Mega Weekend that was run in Columbus last year [at the same time as Origins]. A Mega Weekend [with some Yugi event on the side].

Ultimately ... I think they have the right idea now ... which is that there is no longer the idea of "seasons".

Hobby Leagues ... can decide for themselves what format to use.

Marquee Events ... often have "none of the above" as the answer to the Golden/Silver/Modern question.

Mega Weekends ... have enough events to at least feature BOTH Modern and Silver ... and likely a Golden-esque format like BYOS.

Worlds ... is featuring Modern Age ... but the lion's share of constructed side events are Silver Age. And on Thursday they will be having a Golden Age constructed event.

Having an emphasis on Modern and Silver helps to push the newer sets, as well as encourages the formats that are in the forefront of the designers minds when they make new sets. By not having seasons [as they did with the PCQ formats] they allow players to decide for themselves how to play with their friends, they give them the option to play in either when they attend "big" events ... and they show off variant formats via the Marquee event program.

See, what I'm saying is that IF UDE had to run it on their own, it can you IMAGINE it having to be handled in a format similar to the conventions. It would likely have guest artists doing signings (a La the old PCs) and have a UDE store booth available for players to make purchases direct from UDE. The downside of course would be paying the MSRP for VS product and NOT wheat many of us are accustomed to paying for packs.

While what we already have is just like you said, in order for CHANGES to take place, options like I stated are something they likely already have, and if not will have to explore and consider as something to do.

But UDE isn't focusing on the big tournaments any longer. Not for right now, not for VS any way.

Compared to last year ... they are.

The Mega Weekends, held regularly enough, should be a solid amount of "big tournaments". Events that do not take multiple days to complete are more inclusive, so having the Mega Weekend format be the 'regular' format for Vs 'big events' is probably the way to go.

Let me be more clear:

UDE is not focusing on the big tournaments any more.

Megaweekends are NOT big tournaments. The turnout for those has been a fraction of most $10ks, right? I'd call Megaweekends much more like what PCQs were at one time, strong Mid-level tournaments. Not even close to a big event really.

Maybe the rest of the year will tell a different story, but the purpose and the planning seem to point towards something much different than "big tournaments".

Not only that, but MtG actually creates three cycles of demand for their product.

* When a set is newly released, everyone is after the "obvious chase cards". Most of these will turn out to be mediocre. Some will turn out to be crap. Some will actually be pretty good.

* A long string of PTQs passes, where the "obvious chase cards" continue to have great value. During this time, some players will stumble into other good cards and those cards will go up in value as well, becoming "pseudo-chase cards" themselves.

* Finally, the Pro Tour is held, where the pros basically school the entire community on where the power really lies. "Obvious chase cards" that the pros ignored plummet in value, and the "diamonds in the rough" that the pros picked up will become chase cards instead, rising exponentially in value.

And during that whole time, decks are being built, rebuilt, teched out, discarded, etc. It just lends itself to people buying a lot of cards. Compare that to VS during the time of the PC:

* Almost immediately after the release of a new set, a PC is held where everyone finds out from the pros what cards are good and what cards aren't.

Almost immediately the "chase cards" are set in stone. The best decks are figured out. No more cycle of rotating chase cards or hot decks. No need to buy a bunch of cards and build a bunch of decks. Just copy whatever Hager played card-for-card and you're set.

So what I figure is that UDE should have a cycle of tournaments like what MtG has. I know the PC is gone forever, but they could have a "big" tournament without big money prizes. Just cool swag. Definitely it should not be held close to a set release. There should be a series of qualifying tournaments after a set release (perhaps modern age to drive set sales) and then the big tournament, whatever it is.

Just my 2 cents.

I hear you man... A few things though:

I don't buy because I'm forced. No, never and not at all. That's good that you state that though. Another perspective outside of the tried and true YUGI/Magic business engine is to consider that Magic focuses on a particular niche of TCGers. VS should also focus on it's own niche as well.
I buy boxes of VS because as some have said: fan boys and nerds want to play out story concerning their favorite comic book heroes. The model of business concerning selling product from the magic perspective can't compare to anything that speaks to the comic book geek. We buy for the experience. There's no forcing at all.

41/2 years to play a curved NZ affiliation and none can say that you made me buy or more so that I didn’t buy enough.

Now on the other hand, I think that gamers and those who play the Meta have to be coerced into buying new product: they don't really have a connection or maybe as deep a connection to how the game reads under the surface.

This only seems to work in theory. In practice/reality the big dogs eat the little guys up at every turn. It is a competition after all and most veterans go for the throat every chance that's available.

A better idea would be to allow for master level golden age chicaneries for all pro level tournaments. Points would be required for this level just live any other competition. It would be Dog eat Dog in the most unforgettable matches ever. Saying that we want to give the game a chance to grow and then having tournaments where Pro's are allowed to play at the same level as beginners makes little sense to me.

Let Modern be the tournament for the beginner or person(s) with the least amount of Pro points: he/she learns to play VS against only 4 sets.
Silver then becomes the intermediate step for tournaments: 8 sets to worry about is a lot tougher and the game would be played at a higher pace.
Consequently, Golden Age would be the free for all that would garner legendary status for any player willing to challenge those ranks. I would not open it to players who have never garnered a top 8 in a silver tournament. Furthermore, I wouldn’t allow a player who has played a golden tournament to compete in a Silver or Modern in the same year that he/she competed in a golden tournament. Sit out for a year and that player can start over again at the Silver Level.
I would make the prizes at the Golden Level be the best so that everyone in the know would strive for it.
In other words, if I were UDE's sponsored TO, I wouldn’t allow any player to compete if he/she wouldn’t adhere to the standards that I had just set forth. I wouldn’t let them Meta their victory: No, I would make you war with the big dogs to earn it.

Perpetually in what direction though...
None of us on the realms are experts at creating games for UDE, but we can still give a good 2 cents worth every now and then.
I think it would be easier and more profitable to market the game of VS to those consumers who already love comic book super heroes and villains. Fans of comic books perpetually buy comics even when storylines suck and artwork becomes crappy. You just want to be there when it happens... Again, there's the model that Magic uses which probably works perfect for magic. On the other hand, I see VS as becoming that sole TCG for those consumers who already have a perpetual taste for super heroes and villains.

First you buy some comic books.
Second, you buy some posters and get some product autographed.
Attend some conventions and maybe buy a bust or 2.
At the cinema, watch every movie that was ever made about your favorite heroes/teams.
Buy cool stuff for your Laptops to show your loyalty.
Don't forget to dedicate one of the walls in your house to the playmats that you've won (yeah, that's a good one).

Basically it goes on and on and on... no need to reinvent water or the wheel. We just need to sell to those who are already thirsty.

Please don't post this kind of misleading information until you check your facts.

A non-PC connected 10k has averaged about 150 players (more on the below 150).

Both MegaWeekends had at least 150 unique players.

There were probably only 2 PCQs in hundreds that even had numbers close to either MegaWeekend's biggest turnout (Silver).

MegaWeekends ARE big tournaments... and considering there is not $10k up for grabs makes them even that more significant.

so, 60 card 1-player starters/precons/theme decks are a "yes" for everyone, right? Just making sure.

I'd be all for this. I think UDE should follow its own example from WoW and make the decks both helpful for newcomers but worth buying for existing players, that way retailers can feel a little more confident about stocking them.

This clearly isn't going to happen, but let's say starters were going to be launched alongside Marvel Universe. What about 30-card precons (individually tailored to each team); examples:

-[Captain America] themed Avengers deck with 2 copies of the new Captain America 4 drop and 2 copies of Charging Star.

-[Hulk] themed Warbound deck with 1 copy of Hulk 8 drop, 1 copy of [insert rare Warbound character here], and 2 copies of [insert rare support plot twist here].

-[Annihilus] themed Negative Zone deck with 1 copy of Annihilus 8, 1 copy of Blastaar 7, and 1 copy each of Negative Zone - Gateway and Swarm of Annihilus.

-[Red Skull] themed Crime Lords deck with 4 assorted rares (you see the way I was roughly doing it).

In addition, each deck would come with 3 packs of MUN, a rulebook, and an exclusive MUL card, all in a UDeck case. And not a random MUL card, mind you -- 1 card specifically made for the starter decks. That way if you buy all 4 of them you have a playset.

This, coupled with the packs, encourages everyone to buy them....not to mention the addition of solid rares. But, since each deck will have no more than 2 copies of any given rare (with any possible "money rares" at 1), they will still retain value. MSRP of 12.99 or so.

Would this be plausible for the future? Erick, you're on the retailer side of things -- feel free to shoot me down, but I want to know if people who can look at this from a business perspective could be convinced.